36 replies to this topic

[Wende]

My 12 year old daughter was given the task of cleaning her room out. So as we can switch it around...ie: get a new bed, rip up the carpet, perhaps giving her the bigger, vacant room...etc.

She was told she would have all her electronics removed. Ipod and boombox. A week later, she had them all taken away. Meh, no big deal, she's not big with the electronics anyway. So, back in her room. I told her last week, she had to have it done or she'd have to spend the weekend home and not go have fun over her dads all weekends. I felt bad telling her "no daddy" so I let her go. Her room is pretty OK, just not OK.
We opened her closet and saw she still had a lot of work to do. Well tonight is the big dance at school. I told her on WEds she would need to have her room complete. She dilly dallied all day yesterday, started her closet but basically left everything out on her floor and her room is messier now then it was before. OY! So, husband told her "NO DANCE"

gulp. This one is killing me! I know it's for the best but man...this is a hard one for me

Are we doing the right thing? What would you do?

[Wende]

I already know all the answers.

[little frog]

if it's a huge mess I would ask her if she needs help .. and then I would sit in the room with her and be mostly the supervisor. Just because they have the ability to make the mess does not mean they have the organizational skills to clean it. helping her to not become a hoarder is in her best interest. A huge mess can be overwhelming to 'fix' even for an adult.

xoxo

[Wende]

Oh LF, you hit it right on. Because my HEAD SPINS when everything is a mess and I fall into a FUNK. It takes me taking amphetamines to get it done. And I don't want my kids on these meds....

[Wende]

What if, when she get's home today....I go in there with her and "help" her do it? She'll have been sulking all day in school thinking she can't go. She left crying. She's SUCH a good girl. She babysits for Aleks and is just sooo helpful with direction. I want her to go so bad but I'd have to convince my husband.

[Wende]

Do I have to "teach her a lesson" with this..? Or can we fix it...last minute?

[Wende]

I already fucked up one child...I don't want to mess up any more. I honestly, just don't know what to do. She doesn't have many friends. She lives in an area with no kids. She's always home. She's such a good girl. she's just a fucking hoarder/slob.

[bigtoddy]

There is no convincing. Room clean = privileges.
Life is all about meeting obligations and taking care of business. If you let people slide and never show them that there are no consequences to their actions, then you will raise incredibly spoiled, entitled children who will be ill served when they reach the real world.
Life is all about choices too. Its no skin off my back if she doesn't want to clean her room. She just loses out on things she wants to do. She can live in filth forever, I won't make her clean that room, but I sure as hell aren't going to let her go on like she's completed her tasks. What kind of message gets sent when you say "do this or else you can't do that" and then when they don't do this they can do that? They learn they don't have to do anything because nothing bad will happen to them, leading to an even worse situation.

[little frog]

parenting is about being a teacher, not about being the tough guy, imho. I'm not a newbie here, i raised three fine children and i understand how frustrating it can be. punishment is not teaching, it's bullying. i never had to punish my children. if i saw they were having trouble following my rules then i reexamined my methods so they could be a success at everything they did in the future. today they are three productive happy adults all pursuing their dreams and taking care of themselves.

clean room = ??? .. a good person? silliness.

you are engaging in a power struggle with a 12 year old. that's not teaching, that's winning.

you need to ask yourself 'what is the outcome i'm looking for in this situation?'

to win? to be the boss?

or do you want her to learn some organizational skills?

what is so important about a clean room?

[Ginger Snap]

I agree with dad in that there are certain things that just need to be done in my house if you want me to do things for you. (like give a ride to the dance or something.) Personally I wouldn't go in and "help" her with it without her there. Like Little Frog said- supervise her- give her one task at a time to do and try to have a timeframe in which to get it done- short intervals for each task so that i's broken down into doable steps and it's not this big looming thing that is easy to get distracted and not really know where to start. I know it's not nearly the same thing as parenting, but I teach independent living skills to folks and it's not about doing things for them but breaking it down and showing them how to do it themselves. Even when you feel it's a skill they should already have by now- sometimes they don't. I TOTALLY feel your pain- I have one slob child and one not slob.

I had to say no to my son going to his girlfriend's birthday party two weeks ago because he had just not been acting right and was totally disrespectful. It KILLED me because I knew how much his girlfriend (a boardie kid) really wanted him there, and I felt really bad for her, but he was just so out of line he really needed consequences.

[Wende]

Oh we have never asked her to clean her room. We are looking to renovate back there and need it clean. Has nothing to do with any of that. It's about CLEANING YOUR SHIT SO WE CAN HAVE SOME COOL HARDWOOD FLOORS AND YOU can move into a bigger room.

Stay on target here my two headstrong loves.

it's about the dance...tonight and the three weeks we gave her to clean her room. hahaha.

[Wende]

That above post was to LF, not you ginger. you snuck in there.... Those gingers'll gitcha every time..

[bigtoddy]

Well, since holding people accountable for scheduled tasks can now be considered bullying, I'm out of this thread.

[little frog]

got it, i totally agree with the ginger in how i would handle a big task like this. i know adults who have zero organizational skills and if you asked them to clean a big mess they crawl into a little ball and cry. they couldn't do it in three months, let alone three weeks.

[little frog]

Well, since holding people accountable for scheduled tasks can now be considered bullying, I'm out of this thread.

i'm talking about teaching her the skill .. not punishing her because she doesn't have it. I don't think you're wrong to hold her accountable. that's a great lesson to teach, but assessing her abilities and then teaching her how is going to get you the results you're looking for.

pick your battles, there will be so many more important issues to fight with her about in the future.

[Ginger Snap]

There was a time that my son's idea of how to clean his room was to pull all of his stuff out of his room into the kitchen, sweep the floor, and then slowly move everything back into it- always in a completely different place than it had been before. Problem was- he would always peter out before it was done and all his shit was left in my kitchen!

[Wende]

Like me! I have ZERO when it comes to the home. Outside the home...in a business setting..I'm pretty amazing. But when it comes to "self motivating" not so much.

I love you Frog! I love my Toddy too. ANd ya know what, I think a lot of what you said can be applied to my oldest son and well....I wish you were here to help us out years ago. Because I think I fucked it all up with the bullying. Can't go back either.

All I can do is hope I don't fuck up the rest of my coven.

[little frog]

there were times when i wanted to eat my children and start over, i was SOOO frustrated with them. But then i remembered that they were not born with all the skills they were going to need in this life, and I was the one responsible for teaching those skills to them. If i could be a patient teacher, they would be better at everything.

deep breaths ...

[Ginger Snap]

Little Frog I use your idea of natural consequences whenever I can- both with my children and with my clients. It's really helped them understand the overall lesson I'm trying to convey much better than a generic grounding in quite a few really important circumstances. I know when my kids "get it" and won't need to make that particular mistake again, and when it's still going over their heads. for the most part grounding doesn't work for us. So thanks for that!

[little frog]

the natural consequences takes the power struggle out of the equation. it was the best, most effective method i ever used.

[Ginger Snap]

the natural consequences takes the power struggle out of the equation. it was the best, most effective method i ever used.

Yeah. Like when I was out of town and my son had a few kids over to the house and the police were called, I explained to Jerry that having the cops to the house jeopardizes our housing, and I need to be able to trust that our house is secure when I'm out of town- and I'm still going to go out of town once in a while, and I can no longer trust that Jerry isn't going to throw a party, so he either needs to come with me or go with his dad rather than spending the weekend with a friend. He really got that lesson right quick. Grounding doesn't ensure that it isn't going to happen again, but him being with dad or me sure does.

[little frog]

love it!

[Slave Self Promoted]

while i feel your pain about not allowing her to go to the dance, i agree with toddy. i also like the idea of giving her one last chance to muscle through it, with your supervision, between school and the dance this afternoon. i don't think it's bullying to follow through with the consequences that have been stated several times for not taking care of your responsibilities.

maybe toddy could agree to give her this chance with you by his side, offering your assistance? i like that idea, but it relies mainly on toddy's willingness to bend, because without his involvement, you're sending a message that toddy's parenting comes second to yours, undermining his role in her life.

[Wende]

you are very right Slave.

It has always come down to that. ANd he has always felt soooo bad about this. This was our main issue with the other one. Brandon. I always put what toddy said on the back burner and did what I thought was best. Always fought him and for that I am sorry and I see the effect it has had on our united front...or so called, united.

Thanks ladies. I really do appreciate you and your wisdom.

[unbroken_chain]

seems she's got time between end of school day and first dance to hustle and git r done.... or not.

[little frog]

i definitely agree with slave, that you should stand united, but for her, not against her. she should know you both care deeply about her future and want the best for her. it helps to know home is a stable place.

[hoagie]

seems she's got time between end of school day and first dance to hustle and git r done.... or not.

I always found that having good procrastination skills serves me well in many areas of life. Here is a chance for your girl to learn a major life skill....how to put off cleaning your room till the last minute, and still getting it done!!

[little frog]

You're an inspiration Hoagie ..

[Ginger Snap]

[Mama Kel]

I assume they're cleaning?

[hoagie]

I find it hilarious when i go to my parents house nowadays, because they were aleays all up our asses to "keep your rooms CLEAN"...yet now that we are all moved out and are not there to do the chores, there are just piles of stuff everywhere, and their room always looks like a bomb just went off. Figures

[Ginger Snap]

So did she clean her room and go to the dance?

[Wende]

She did. And she did an amazing job. And she had an amazing time. And all is very well.

[Ginger Snap]

[georgi]

Emelia will be 6 months tomorrow and we've started teaching her no.

Like when she pulls my hair (by accident!). If she's too rough with the cat or dog we are all "No! Do gentle!" and take her hand and pat them nicely.

Maybe it's too early. Whatever. Figured it doesn't hurt.

[Geminimoon]

I think telling her no and holding her responsible will be a great lesson that will help her later in life.

I agree that kids need to be taught organization but if she had 3 weeks to get it done at some point you have to be firm or she will always know that deadlines and rules are able to be broken, which is not always the case when we are grown up.

[TEO]

There is no convincing. Room clean = privileges.
Life is all about meeting obligations and taking care of business. If you let people slide and never show them that there are no consequences to their actions, then you will raise incredibly spoiled, entitled children who will be ill served when they reach the real world.
Life is all about choices too. Its no skin off my back if she doesn't want to clean her room. She just loses out on things she wants to do. She can live in filth forever, I won't make her clean that room, but I sure as hell aren't going to let her go on like she's completed her tasks. What kind of message gets sent when you say "do this or else you can't do that" and then when they don't do this they can do that? They learn they don't have to do anything because nothing bad will happen to them, leading to an even worse situation.

Hear! Hear!