347 replies to this topic

[concert andy]

I love how I'm penalized for my life choice but married folk get a discount.

I hear ya bro. It was a nice surprise when I saw the difference.


Oh and this needs to be top...

[PeaceFrog]

is everybody posting in bold or is it just me?

[TakeAStepBack]

It's your face. The thread is Locke bold.

[PeaceFrog]

ahh, that last page was fuxxed up. glad it's fixed now.

progressive marginal tax rates are fair, and it is what works, regardless of whether anyone thinks it's fair or not.

[TakeAStepBack]

progressive marginal tax rates are fair, and it is what works, regardless of whether anyone thinks it's fair or not.

:dizzy:

[TakeAStepBack]

[PeaceFrog]

the reason you think it is unfair is based solely on principle.

you think that ALL taxes are unfair. So why does your opinion on the fairness of a progressive tax even matter? SRSLY

[TakeAStepBack]

Thanks, Dick Tater.

[PeaceFrog]

yeah, no problem Dickensian.

[TakeAStepBack]

He's groveling and repeating himself.

He's doing the fucking "agree with me, or else." bit again. He's so fucking transparent. He's speaking for everyone, like a true dick Tater.

[PeaceFrog]

[concert andy]

The one point I heard from a conservative (guy hosting while Rush was on Vacation), he stated that the biggest fear (as I stated previously) is going into a recession.

If that were to happen then more jobs would be lost, and that 30% (tax decreases (his plan)) of something is better than 40% of nothing.

Point being if we go into another recession the Fed debt will increase even more.

[TakeAStepBack]

Another recession is inevitable in this monetary set up. The economy has been dragging and stagnant outside the investment/financial sectors for over 4 years. Now even those sectors are showing the aches and pains. The fiscal cliff was the negotiation. So that is what should happen and if Americans don't like it, stop hiring dumbfucks to run our country.

/thread.

[concert andy]

Another recession is inevitable in this monetary set up. The economy has been dragging and stagnant outside the investment/financial sectors for over 4 years. Now even those sectors are showing the aches and pains. The fiscal cliff was the negotiation. So that is what should happen and if Americans don't like it, stop hiring dumbfucks to run our country.

/thread.

That is easier said than done.

We need good people to run for office, not people looking to make their fame like a reality TV star.

[TakeAStepBack]

That seems to be the entire problem. We hire elected official in washington to do nothing more than uphold the constitution and protect our rights equally. We haven't hired people on the federal level for this purpose in 100 years or more. We want them to RUN our lives. So they are. And people suck at running other peopes lives. It's something we learned in about 5 centuries ago. Then forgot because sitting on our asses watching TV and waiting for someone else to fix shit (while pointing fingers) seems so much more appealing.

That's the whole problem. We need good servants to uphold and protect our rights. Instead we hire morans to run our lives like a business.

[PeaceFrog]

I have an easy solution, don't hire people who are anti-government to run the government.

Isn't that a lot like hiring a vegetarian to be a butcher? I'm not saying it isn't possible... just not probable and somewhat counter-intuitive. Wouldn't a vegetarian make a much better florist, or a veterinarian?

And that's why conservatives work best as a minority party.

[TakeAStepBack]

Our entire country was founded on anti-government sentiment. The constitution was designed to shackle the necessary evil of government in the first place. That's why the bill of rights, written about extensively in the federalist/anti-federalisrt papers was debated on whether it should be included at all. Because the federalists rightly argued that these inalienable natural/god given rights would be up for interpretation. They were dead accurate.

The bill only re-affirms inalienable rights against government. Not as rights afforded by the establishment of the constitutional republic.

[PeaceFrog]

ok marty, go back in your time machine and go home now.

[TakeAStepBack]

It's called history. If you tried it some time you might make less ridiclulous "comments" such as "don't hire people who are anti-government to run government".

That's exactly what we need. People who dislike encroaching bureaucrats in favor of our rights.

[concert andy]

OK, Lets get past how to fix this long term (like 6 years from now to get whole new set of F'ers in there).

What do we do today to fix this?

Let it go over the cliff and go into recession and let debt increase even further.

or

Get a short term fix so that we could elect people to take care of this in the future.

I lean toward the latter.

[Joker]

Wasn't that pretty much the plan when they signed the Budget Control Act?

[TakeAStepBack]

Except it never happens in the latter. Ever. We've been singing that song for decades. Why not give it another rotation on the player? Because that is insanity.

[TakeAStepBack]

I also dont think it leads to more debt. There are actual across the board cuts associated with the cliff. Along with (potential) revenue increases.

[concert andy]

Wasn't that pretty much the plan when they signed the Budget Control Act?

Kind of. It was intended for this to happen and without that major tax increases that neither party wanted,

Now it is just at a spot of calling each others bluff.


TASB, I understand your frustration, but that is the system we have. You say insanity, I say the cards we are dealt, now for them to start playing the game not win the next election, but to do what is right by tax payer.

[concert andy]

Word is deal reached, and Obama won the political game.

450K will be the tax increase number.

[Joker]

Nothing yet

[concert andy]

There has been significant progress is what the story said, and Obama spoke at 1:30pm about this, and deal appears in sight.

Obama says deal to avert 'fiscal cliff' appears to be in sight

[PeaceFrog]

It's called history. If you tried it some time you might make less ridiclulous "comments" such as "don't hire people who are anti-government to run government".

That's exactly what we need. People who dislike encroaching bureaucrats in favor of our rights.

right... people have to read up on their history... but only history books approved by you, and not all those liberal leaning history books used to teach kids in public school.

oh and 300 years worth of Supreme Court interpretation of the law is also meaningless -- a non-issue, as you would say, right?

[TakeAStepBack]

300 years? Jeebus....

[TakeAStepBack]

Just read the federalist and anti-federalisrt paper s adn get back to me. If those aren't "approved" sources I don't know what is.

[Joker]

It's official: Deal reached on "fiscal cliff"

As revelers in Times Square and cities and towns across the country wait for the ball to drop to ring in the new year, politicians in Washington have announced that a ball is not likely to drop on the average taxpayer. Negotiators have come to an agreement on the so-called "fiscal cliff" - and with less than three hours to spare, CBS News has confirmed.

Vice President Joe Biden traveled to Capitol Hill to brief Senate Democrats on the details of the deal; both Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., have signed off on the agreement, White House and congressional sources told CBS News' Chief White House Correspondent Major Garrett.

Now that lawmakers have settled on a deal, it's unclear when the Senate will vote but it's expected that if it passes, the House will vote tomorrow at the earliest.

What this means is that although the country will technically go over the "cliff" at midnight, the agreement - if passed by both houses of Congress - guarantees any detrimental impact from the "cliff" will be avoided, even if a vote happens after midnight, as language will likely be added to the final legislation that would make the changes retroactive.
Here are the known details of the deal:

• Tax rates: current tax rates will be extended for all wage earners making below $400,000 and couples making below $450,000.
  
  This was a key concession for both Republicans and Democrats. Democrats wanted the threshold for tax increases to rest at $250,000 and Republicans didn't want marginal tax rates to increase for anyone.
  
• The automatic spending cuts under the sequester will be delayed for two months. The cost of continuing current federal spending levels will be offset by revenue increases and some spending cuts. The spending cuts will come half from defense and half non-defense accounts.
  The two-month window is to allow Congress and the White House to come up with a larger deal on spending cuts, leading to another (though smaller) "fiscal cliff." Democrats see this deal as a victory because Republicans had objected to using any new tax revenue to offset the loss of sequester spending cuts, reports Garrett.
  
• The estate tax: it was set to increase from rom 35 percent to 55 percent in 2013. Instead, the compromise sets the new rate at 40 percent with the first $5 million worth of property exempt from being taxed.
  
• Capital gains tax: Capital gains and dividend tax rates will increase from 15 to 20 percent.
  
• Alternative Minimum Tax: a permanent fix to the tax that would hit middle class families
  
• "Doc Fix": doctors will be shielded from a massive reimbursement gap for treating Medicare patients.
  
• Unemployment benefits: unemployed workers will receive their benefits which expired over the weekend.
  
• Renewable energy tax credit: the tax credit for renewable energy companies will be extended for another year.

More
http://www.cbsnews.c...n-fiscal-cliff/

[TakeAStepBack]

good show ol' chaps.

[TakeAStepBack]

[TakeAStepBack]

Laissez-faire (ⁱ/ˌlɛseɪˈfɛər-/, French: [lɛsefɛʁ] ( listen)) is an economic environment in which transactions between private parties are free from tariffs, governmentsubsidies, and enforced monopolies, with only enough government regulations sufficient to protectproperty rights against theft and aggression. The phrase laissez-faire is French and literally means "let [them] do", but it broadly implies "let it be"

[concert andy]

http://www.philly.co...iscalcliff.html


Details of tentative deal averting 'fiscal cliff'


Highlights include:

,Income tax rates: Extends decade-old tax cuts on incomes up to $400,000 for individuals, $450,000 for couples. Earnings above those amounts would be taxed at a rate of 39.6 percent, up from the current 35 percent. Extends Clinton-era caps on itemized deductions and the phase-out of the personal exemption for individuals making more than $250,000 and couples earning more than $300,000.

,Estate tax: Estates would be taxed at a top rate of 40 percent, with the first $5 million in value exempted for individual estates and $10 million for family estates. In 2012, such estates were subject to a top rate of 35 percent.

,Capital gains, dividends: Taxes on capital gains and dividend income exceeding $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for families would increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.

,Alternative minimum tax: Permanently addresses the alternative minimum tax and indexes it for inflation to prevent nearly 30 million middle- and upper-middle income taxpayers from being hit with higher tax bills averaging almost $3,000. The tax was originally designed to ensure that the wealthy did not avoid owing taxes by using loopholes.

,Other tax changes: Extends for five years Obama-sought expansions of the child tax credit, earned income tax credit, and an up to $2,500 tax credit for college tuition. Also extends for one year accelerated "bonus" depreciation of business investments in new property and equipment, a tax credit for research and development costs and a tax credit for renewable energy such as wind-generated electricity.

,Unemployment benefits: Extends jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed for one year.

,Cuts in Medicare reimbursements to doctors: Blocks a 27 percent cut in Medicare payments to doctors for one year. The cut is the product of an obsolete 1997 budget formula.

,Social Security payroll tax cut: Allows a 2 percentage point cut in the payroll tax first enacted two years ago to lapse, which restores the payroll tax to 6.2 percent.

,Across-the-board cuts: Delays for two months $109 billion worth of across-the-board spending cuts set to start striking the Pentagon and domestic agencies this week. Cost of $24 billion is divided between spending cuts and new revenues from rules changes on converting traditional individual retirement accounts into Roth IRAs.

[concert andy]

It's official: Deal reached on "fiscal cliff"

As revelers in Times Square and cities and towns across the country wait for the ball to drop to ring in the new year, politicians in Washington have announced that a ball is not likely to drop on the average taxpayer. Negotiators have come to an agreement on the so-called "fiscal cliff" - and with less than three hours to spare, CBS News has confirmed.

Vice President Joe Biden traveled to Capitol Hill to brief Senate Democrats on the details of the deal; both Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., have signed off on the agreement, White House and congressional sources told CBS News' Chief White House Correspondent Major Garrett.

Now that lawmakers have settled on a deal, it's unclear when the Senate will vote but it's expected that if it passes, the House will vote tomorrow at the earliest.

What this means is that although the country will technically go over the "cliff" at midnight, the agreement - if passed by both houses of Congress - guarantees any detrimental impact from the "cliff" will be avoided, even if a vote happens after midnight, as language will likely be added to the final legislation that would make the changes retroactive.
Here are the known details of the deal:

• Tax rates: current tax rates will be extended for all wage earners making below $400,000 and couples making below $450,000.
  
  This was a key concession for both Republicans and Democrats. Democrats wanted the threshold for tax increases to rest at $250,000 and Republicans didn't want marginal tax rates to increase for anyone.
  
• The automatic spending cuts under the sequester will be delayed for two months. The cost of continuing current federal spending levels will be offset by revenue increases and some spending cuts. The spending cuts will come half from defense and half non-defense accounts.
  The two-month window is to allow Congress and the White House to come up with a larger deal on spending cuts, leading to another (though smaller) "fiscal cliff." Democrats see this deal as a victory because Republicans had objected to using any new tax revenue to offset the loss of sequester spending cuts, reports Garrett.
  
• The estate tax: it was set to increase from rom 35 percent to 55 percent in 2013. Instead, the compromise sets the new rate at 40 percent with the first $5 million worth of property exempt from being taxed.
  
• Capital gains tax: Capital gains and dividend tax rates will increase from 15 to 20 percent.
  
• Alternative Minimum Tax: a permanent fix to the tax that would hit middle class families
  
• "Doc Fix": doctors will be shielded from a massive reimbursement gap for treating Medicare patients.
  
• Unemployment benefits: unemployed workers will receive their benefits which expired over the weekend.
  
• Renewable energy tax credit: the tax credit for renewable energy companies will be extended for another year.

More
http://www.cbsnews.c...n-fiscal-cliff/

Doh, beat me to it.

[PeaceFrog]

oh the federalis vs. the anti-federalis.

as if I was unaware of this ongoing culture clash that's been going on since the beginning of time.

are you an isolationist? You don't believe in globalization? Well, sorry to break the news to you, but globalization is occurring and has been occurring since the beginning of time. We are now at a point where the spread of information is almost as fast as the speed of light. The spread of goods is not quite that speedy, but overnight isn't out of the question.

so, it's no longer about the fucking federalis vs. the anti fucking federalis... it's about globalism vs. isolationism, and neither one is a good option in my opinion. There needs to be a compromise.

I, like you, lean more to the side of isolationism. But, through observation of reality, I've come to conclude that globalization is inevitable, and if it's planned out carefully, it could be beneficial for all Americans (and eventually everyone in the world), so you either accept it and ride the wave, or get sucked under and drown.

[PeaceFrog]

http://www.whitehous...n-tax-agreement

President Obama has repeatedly called this a make-or-break moment for the middle class. That's why we worked with Republicans and Democrats in Congress to reach an agreement that keeps income taxes low for the middle class and helps to grow the economy. And as the President promised, millionaires and billionaires will also begin doing more to help pay down the deficit through a combination of permanent tax rate increases and reduced tax benefits.

This is the first time in twenty years that a bipartisan agreement has increased tax rates on the wealthy. Additionally, this deal ensures that America will continue to invest in education, clean energy, and manufacturing to strengthen our economy and the middle class.

As President Obama noted in a statement about the deal, while neither Democrats nor Republicans got everything they wanted, this agreement is the right thing to do for our country. And the President looks forward to working with Republicans to reduce the deficit in a balanced and bipartisan way.

The agreement passed by an overwhelming bipartisan majority in the Senate last night permanently extends the middle-class tax cuts and also extends credits for working families. It provides additional measures to protect families and promote economic growth. The lower tax rates, an expanded Child Tax Credit, and marriage penalty relief will provide certainty for 114 million households and together will prevent the typical family of four from seeing a $2,200 tax increase.

By raising income tax rates on the wealthiest and keeping taxes low for the middle class, it means we will now have the most progressive tax code in decades. The agreement also prevents two million people from losing unemployment insurance benefits in January by extending emergency UI benefits for one year.

The agreement avoids a 27 percent cut to reimbursements for doctors seeing Medicare patients for 2013 by fixing the sustainable growth rate formula through the end of next year (the “doc fix”).

Tax credits that encourage the production of clean domestic energy, such as the Production Tax Credit (PTC), will be extended through the end of the year. And businesses will get to immediately write off 50 percent of capital investments made next year, helping to create jobs in manufacturing and other sectors.

The deal also postpones the sequester for two months, which will give Congress time to work on a balanced plan to prevent the automatic spending cuts that would threaten our national security and slash investments that build our economy. The postponement is paid for with $1 of revenue for every $1 of spending, with the spending balanced between defense and domestic: The agreement saves $24 billion, half in revenue and half from spending cuts which are divided equally between defense and nondefense.

There’s more work to do to reduce the deficit, and President Obama is prepared to work with Congress to do it. But this agreement builds on the $1 trillion in spending cuts the President has already signed into law.

[elder]

22 mil to rum producing countries
70 mil to NASCAR for race track losses

and so on and so on

but they ignore the vote to help the Sandy victims?

Wow.
And you wonder why so many are disinfranshised with our govt, country?

It just doesn't matter in the end. We will be fucked. We should all bend over and take it together. No use in picking up sides. We are all fucked together.

[PeaceFrog]

yeah, well, the vote for hurricane Sandy aid was completely up to John Boehner and Eric Cantor -- the REPUBLICAN leaders of the house.

I am in no way a partisan Democrat, but I can spot a gang of assholes when I see one, and that's all that most Republicans are in these modern times, especially the ones who live in the bubble of Washington DC.

I would never say that all Democrats are Saints. They are imperfect people with selfish human desires just like the rest of us, but it is obvious to me which group feels as though we're all in this together, and which group thinks they can get by on their own without the help of anyone else (and is also unwilling to lend help to their fellow man.)

[elder]

We're obviously paying for Gov Chistie playing nice with Obama during the storm and "costing Romney the election".

Fucking disgusting.

[elder]

Actually, I take that back and apologize to my brothers and sisters from the NY Islands for slighting them in the slighting.
They are equally if not more fucked then us in NJ.

[PeaceFrog]

if it wasn't already obvious who congressional Republicans are working for, then this really ought to clear things up a bit.

They are employees of the billionaires that helped them get into office, and that's who they work for.

Governer Christie impressed me during the hurricane by acting like an all around decent guy. It was, however, a 180 degree spin from what he was saying during the RNC... but whatever. People say stupid things sometimes. It's what they do that really matters.

[TakeAStepBack]

Yes, it is clearly a party issue. One party is doing the peoples business and the other party is looking out for their friends.


I'm liking all the big spending cvust coming out of the new fiscal cliff deal. All none of them.

I also like how they only raised taxes on....all working people that pay federal income tax.

Suite. Fucking. Deal. Moses.

[concert andy]

AIG may join bailout suit against U.S. government

 

Basically they want to sue because:

 

merican International Group Inc , the insurer rescued by the U.S. government in 2008 with a bailout that ultimately totaled $182 billion, may now join a lawsuit against the government alleging the terms of the deal were unfair.

[Tim the Beek]

AIG may join bailout suit against U.S. government

 

Basically they want to sue because:

 

merican International Group Inc , the insurer rescued by the U.S. government in 2008 with a bailout that ultimately totaled $182 billion, may now join a lawsuit against the government alleging the terms of the deal were unfair.

 

One of the first things I saw when I got to my desk this morning.

 

I just about lost my mind...

[concert andy]

Same here.  I usually check yahoo finance first thing every morning.

 

Best part, is before accepting this job, I had an offer for a job at AIG.

[Tim the Beek]