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The Fiscal Cliff


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#201 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:42 AM

Dude who cares who works or who doesnt?

Such a lame arguement. :lol: we all know its the Vibeguides who are probably working yet always on this thing :lol:


Imbeciles like meYoYo who on one hand love to blame Obama for 8% unemployment, and then on the other hand enjoy looking down their noses at the unemployed care, apparently since he likes to say that I don't work in almost every thread.

So, here's three "gentlemen" (using that term loosely) who have no ideas and think we're all going to hell criticizing and condemning those of us who actually give a shit and are trying to make it work... and they say I'm a troll :lol: now THAT is laughable.

Projection is such a common trait of simpletons.

#202 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:43 AM

Says the union turd that has to take his 15 minute - coffee break. :lmao:


Is there something wrong with taking a 15 minute coffee break?

#203 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:44 AM

I can see you've been waiting on my post with bated breath. Do you have it set to text alert you when I post?

#204 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

Imbeciles like meYoYo who on one hand love to blame Obama for 8% unemployment,

He never herped that derp. You're derping the wrong herp.

So, here's three "gentlemen" (using that term loosely) who have no ideas and think we're all going to hell criticizing and condemning those of us who actually give a shit and are trying to make it work... and they say I'm a troll :lol: now THAT is laughable.

No idea about what? The manuals you read that hopefully cause a DIAF?

Projection is such a common trait of simpletons.
:lmao:

Is there something wrong with taking a 15 minute coffee break?

Posted Image

I can see you've been waiting on my post with bated breath. Do you have it set to text alert you when I post?

Nope. I just love a good troller suite melty. If you weren't such a cock slap it would be less fun.

#205 hoagie

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

Off topic here...who or what is tgat weird face you guys keep posting?

In so out of the meme loop i dont even know what to google to find this out. Thanks

#206 MeOmYo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:23 PM

This thread :lmao:

Good thing you have the internetz to hide behind PF.

#207 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

Posted Image

#208 MeOmYo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

oh shit, PF is awake

#209 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

Off topic here...who or what is tgat weird face you guys keep posting?

In so out of the meme loop i dont even know what to google to find this out. Thanks


it's the internet "troll guy"

I didn't even really know much about it until TASB started posting it. Now, I embrace it.

#210 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

oh shit, PF is awake


do you keep a text file on your computer with a log of my posting frequency?

#211 Tim the Beek

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

Woulda been nice if they'd paid attention to him...



#212 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

http://www.huffingto...hp_ref=politics

Top Two Percent To GOP: Tax Us

WASHINGTON -- Congressional Republicans' opposition to any tax rate hike on the top two percent of earners shows few signs of letting up as the debate wears on. But the beneficiaries of that opposition, the nation's wealthiest executives, have themselves begun opening up to the possibility of a rate hike.

On Tuesday, FedEx Chairman and CEO Fred Smith, an adviser to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, said that the notion that tax hikes on the richest Americans would kill jobs was simply "mythology."

And on Monday, a gathering of the nation's top defense executives took a surprising turn when they endorsed tax rate increases on the wealthy and cuts of up to $150 billion to the Pentagon's budget. Top executives from Northrop Grumman, Pratt & Whitney, TASC and RTI International Metals appeared at the National Press Club at an event organized by the Aerospace Industries Association, the top defense contractor lobbyist.

David Langstaff, CEO of TASC, said that the executives were speaking out because so far leaders of the defense industry were "talking a good game, but are still unwilling to park short-term self-interest." After the event, he told a defense reporter for Politico that tax rates need to go up.

“In the near term, [income tax rates] need to go up some,” Langstaff said. "This is a fairness issue -- there needs to be recognition that we’re not collecting enough revenue. In the last decade we’ve fought two wars without raising taxes. So I think it does need to go up.”

David Hess, head of Pratt & Whitney, said his parent company, United Technologies Corp, believed personal income tax rates should be on the table; Dawne Hickton, CEO of RTI, said he would back a rate hike if it led to a deal.

The CEOs join other high-profile executives who are willing to chip in more. Following a meeting with President Barack Obama last week at the White House, executives emerged to endorse higher rates. "There needs to be some revenue element to this, and [Obama] started with rates," said Joe Echeverria, CEO of Deloitte LLP. "And he started with rates on what we would define [as] the upper two percent … that we have to pay our fair share. And I think everybody was in agreement with that notion."

AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, who was also at the meeting, said in a statement that a deal "will require a compromise involving an increase in both tax rates and revenue."

Goldman Sachs Chief Executive Lloyd Blankfein, meanwhile, told CNN after the meeting that "if we had to lift up the marginal rate, I would do that."

When asked Wednesday about increasing support among wealthy executives for higher taxes on the rich, Republicans on Capitol Hill showed no signs of letting up.

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) said he had not heard the CEOs' remarks this week but insisted he would not support rate increases. He would rather see revenue generated through capping deductions, he told The Huffington Post.

"The reason deductions is a more attractive way to do this is because it doesn't hit small businesses nearly as hard as rate increases do," Thune said. "That is a concern to me, because ultimately what we need to be thinking about is economic growth. Do our policies inhibit or facilitate economic growth? And rate increases on small businesses are going to be counterproductive in terms of growing the economy and creating jobs."

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) struck a similar chord with respect to rates, saying he would not support any deal allowing tax rates for the top two percent to expire.

"I'm deeply concerned that raising rates or further complicating the tax code is going to make it harder for us to generate the revenue we need to get out of this hole that we're in," Rubio said in an interview. "To me, it's not about a pledge -- it isn't about protecting millionaires and billionaires. It's about creating new taxpayers, because that's the only way we're going to get out of this."

But Sen. Dan Coats (R-Ind.) was slightly more flexible. While he reiterated the need for comprehensive tax reform, the senator acknowledged that he did not think restructuring the tax code would be possible before the end of this year, when the Bush-era tax cuts are set to expire.

"It's very hard to see that we can get that done in a quick two to three week process here. So I'm hoping that whatever comes down will have enforceable instructions that certain goals must be reached through comprehensive tax reform at a date certain in 2013," Coats told HuffPost. "To cherry-pick right now on tax would be -- what we'd have to do is come back and revisit and revise, and we need more certainty."

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said he did not want to deal in hypotheticals, but added that he has been considering the opinions of a wide variety of sources. Asked about executives expressing a willingness to see their rates go up, he responded, "I am always glad to receive advice … I can't speculate on what might happen, [but] I have some confidence in the Speaker and Sen. McConnell in arriving at a resolution."

Still, some Republicans have broken with their party and indicated their support for accepting President Barack Obama's proposal to extend tax cuts only for the first $250,000 of income. Last week, Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) urged fellow Republicans to agree to the president's tax plan, and since then a number of Republicans have made similar statements, including Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine.), Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), Rep. Kay Granger (R-Texas) and Rep. Robert Dold (R-Ill.).

#213 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:20 PM

He sounds like TASB without the yelling.

I like that this was on msnDc though.

#214 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

http://www.huffingto...hp_ref=politics

Top Two Percent To GOP: Tax Us

WASHINGTON -- Congressional Republicans' opposition to any tax rate hike on the top two percent of earners shows few signs of letting up as the debate wears on. But the beneficiaries of that opposition, the nation's wealthiest executives, have themselves begun opening up to the possibility of a rate hike.

On Tuesday, FedEx Chairman and CEO Fred Smith, an adviser to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, said that the notion that tax hikes on the richest Americans would kill jobs was simply "mythology."

And on Monday, a gathering of the nation's top defense executives took a surprising turn when they endorsed tax rate increases on the wealthy and cuts of up to $150 billion to the Pentagon's budget. Top executives from Northrop Grumman, Pratt & Whitney, TASC and RTI International Metals appeared at the National Press Club at an event organized by the Aerospace Industries Association, the top defense contractor lobbyist.

David Langstaff, CEO of TASC, said that the executives were speaking out because so far leaders of the defense industry were "talking a good game, but are still unwilling to park short-term self-interest." After the event, he told a defense reporter for Politico that tax rates need to go up.

“In the near term, [income tax rates] need to go up some,” Langstaff said. "This is a fairness issue -- there needs to be recognition that we’re not collecting enough revenue. In the last decade we’ve fought two wars without raising taxes. So I think it does need to go up.”

David Hess, head of Pratt & Whitney, said his parent company, United Technologies Corp, believed personal income tax rates should be on the table; Dawne Hickton, CEO of RTI, said he would back a rate hike if it led to a deal.

The CEOs join other high-profile executives who are willing to chip in more. Following a meeting with President Barack Obama last week at the White House, executives emerged to endorse higher rates. "There needs to be some revenue element to this, and [Obama] started with rates," said Joe Echeverria, CEO of Deloitte LLP. "And he started with rates on what we would define [as] the upper two percent … that we have to pay our fair share. And I think everybody was in agreement with that notion."

AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, who was also at the meeting, said in a statement that a deal "will require a compromise involving an increase in both tax rates and revenue."

Goldman Sachs Chief Executive Lloyd Blankfein, meanwhile, told CNN after the meeting that "if we had to lift up the marginal rate, I would do that."

When asked Wednesday about increasing support among wealthy executives for higher taxes on the rich, Republicans on Capitol Hill showed no signs of letting up.

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) said he had not heard the CEOs' remarks this week but insisted he would not support rate increases. He would rather see revenue generated through capping deductions, he told The Huffington Post.

"The reason deductions is a more attractive way to do this is because it doesn't hit small businesses nearly as hard as rate increases do," Thune said. "That is a concern to me, because ultimately what we need to be thinking about is economic growth. Do our policies inhibit or facilitate economic growth? And rate increases on small businesses are going to be counterproductive in terms of growing the economy and creating jobs."

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) struck a similar chord with respect to rates, saying he would not support any deal allowing tax rates for the top two percent to expire.

"I'm deeply concerned that raising rates or further complicating the tax code is going to make it harder for us to generate the revenue we need to get out of this hole that we're in," Rubio said in an interview. "To me, it's not about a pledge -- it isn't about protecting millionaires and billionaires. It's about creating new taxpayers, because that's the only way we're going to get out of this."

But Sen. Dan Coats (R-Ind.) was slightly more flexible. While he reiterated the need for comprehensive tax reform, the senator acknowledged that he did not think restructuring the tax code would be possible before the end of this year, when the Bush-era tax cuts are set to expire.

"It's very hard to see that we can get that done in a quick two to three week process here. So I'm hoping that whatever comes down will have enforceable instructions that certain goals must be reached through comprehensive tax reform at a date certain in 2013," Coats told HuffPost. "To cherry-pick right now on tax would be -- what we'd have to do is come back and revisit and revise, and we need more certainty."

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said he did not want to deal in hypotheticals, but added that he has been considering the opinions of a wide variety of sources. Asked about executives expressing a willingness to see their rates go up, he responded, "I am always glad to receive advice … I can't speculate on what might happen, [but] I have some confidence in the Speaker and Sen. McConnell in arriving at a resolution."

Still, some Republicans have broken with their party and indicated their support for accepting President Barack Obama's proposal to extend tax cuts only for the first $250,000 of income. Last week, Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) urged fellow Republicans to agree to the president's tax plan, and since then a number of Republicans have made similar statements, including Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine.), Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), Rep. Kay Granger (R-Texas) and Rep. Robert Dold (R-Ill.).


I bet athletes, who fall under the 2% and tend to go broke, are not for these additional taxes.

#215 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

So go over the fiscal cliff. You'll get tax increases and spending cuts. Why are the LOLberals so scared of the fiscal cliff?

#216 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

He sounds like TASB without the yelling.

I like that this was on msnDc though.


Internet yelling.


:lmao:

#217 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

http://politicaltick...lthy/?hpt=hp_t1


GOP senator backs tax rate hike on wealthy


Washington (CNN) - In a significant development in the fiscal cliff standoff, Republican Sen. Tom Coburn, a leading deficit hawk, said Wednesday he would support higher tax rates on wealthier Americans as part of a broader deal with President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats to avoid the crisis.

"I know we have to raise revenue," the senator from Oklahoma told MSNBC. "I don't really care which way we do it. Actually, I would rather see rates go up than do it the other way, because it gives us a greater chance to reform the tax code and broaden the base in the future."

Coburn, who served on the Simpson-Bowles fiscal commission and participated in the Gang of Six deficit talks, was one of the first Republicans a couple of years to embrace raising revenue to reduce the deficit. At that time, he wanted to do it through reforming the tax code by eliminating loopholes and deductions that he argued favored the rich and powerful. But now he appears to be the first GOP senator to say publicly he would back increasing the tax rates on the wealthy, as long as that increase is coupled with spending cuts and entitlement reforms.

Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe, both Republicans from Maine, said later Wednesday they, too, would support the tax rate increase on the wealthy, though they would like to see a caveat to "protect small business owners" who include their business income on their personal tax returns.

"I believe that very wealthy individuals-millionaires and billionaires-should pay a greater percentage of their income in taxes to help us reduce the soaring deficit," Collins said, noting that "In April, I was the only Republican to vote to proceed to consideration of a bill, the so-called "Buffett Rule," which would have imposed a new minimum tax on the very wealthy."

Coburn thinks its better to raise rates now, which will generate the money needed to get beyond the fiscal cliff and then negotiate broad reforms to the tax code – such as eliminating deductions and loopholes – that both Republicans and Democrats argue is necessary.

He is worried that if some reforms are made now as part of the fiscal cliff talks, Congress might never return to the table to do comprehensive reform.

Not surprisingly, Democrats seized on Coburn's unexpected new position.

"Senator Coburn is an unquestioned conservative," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-New York, in a news release. "If he doesn't provide cover for the Republicans to finally shift on tax rates, I don't know who does."

"Welcome to the Club," read a news release issued by House Democrats.

#218 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:25 PM

The guy was in with the gang of six. It really comes as no shocker. He believes moar revenue, and appreantly spending is just not an issue. So i guess it makes sense for him to go public on this.

it's also funny that they bring up millionaires and billionaires when we're talking about folks making 250K or more. Which is hardly even close to a millionaire even.

Sounds like the republicans are getting on board, ever so slowly. Considering two staunch repubs were just ejected from the house budget committee. I think we'll see a closing of the gap on LOLberalism between the two parties going forward. This should get things "done". Although, I doubt in the best interest of the nation.

#219 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

The guy was in with the gang of six. It really comes as no shocker. He believes moar revenue, and appreantly spending is just not an issue. So i guess it makes sense for him to go public on this.

it's also funny that they bring up millionaires and billionaires when we're talking about folks making 250K or more. Which is hardly even close to a millionaire even.

Sounds like the republicans are getting on board, ever so slowly. Considering two staunch repubs were just ejected from the house budget committee. I think we'll see a closing of the gap on LOLberalism between the two parties going forward. This should get things "done". Although, I doubt in the best interest of the nation.




What you do not want to kick the can down the road for some other congress or president to handle?

:lol:

#220 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

What i want in this system is irrelevant to what we'll actually get. But what I mean is that the current policy push of tax the rich doesn't even begin to address teh fiscal problems. It's actually comical. It doesn't effect me for the so called rich to be taxed further, so I really don't hold a personal stake. But it solves nothing. Literally. The congress critters paycheck alone as undoubtably already spent the savings by all the time and arguing that has gone into it.

The math is just not there to make this tax increase the relevant issue that the washington morans are making it out to be.

#221 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

What i want in this system is irrelevant to what we'll actually get. But what I mean is that the current policy push of tax the rich doesn't even begin to address teh fiscal problems. It's actually comical. It doesn't effect me for the so called rich to be taxed further, so I really don't hold a personal stake. But it solves nothing. Literally. The congress critters paycheck alone as undoubtably already spent the savings by all the time and arguing that has gone into it.

The math is just not there to make this tax increase the relevant issue that the washington morans are making it out to be.


The thing I do like, is the opposing of Grover and his nonsense tax pledge.

#222 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

They can't win that argument anymore. So to keep themselves in a seat (self interest) they will distance themselves from it. They will sitance themselves from any principle they believe (or dont) to maintain their seats.

I still find it completely telling of the state of affairs we are in that approaching this election, congress had the worst approval rating in history. And almost everyone maintained their seat. Team America, fuck yeah!

#223 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

Republicans gerrymandered congressional districts after the 2010 census, and that is how they were able to keep the majority in the House. That's the only reason they kept the majority.

#224 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

Majority of voters support Obama tax plan hike on high-income families: poll

New Quinnipiac poll shows 65 percent favor raising taxes on families earning $250K

President Obama has been aggressively campaigning for his plan to avoid the fiscal cliff, now less than a month away.

President Obama was handed some new ammunition in his fight for an upper-class tax hike in the form of a new poll showing public support for the measure.

Nearly two-thirds of registered voters polled by Quinnipiac University support Obama’s plan to raise taxes on families making more than $250,000.

The tax hike on wealthy Americans was backed by 65 percent of the nearly 2,000 voters polled and opposed by 31 percent.

More than half – 53 percent – said they also trust Obama and congressional Democrats more than Republicans to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff – the billions in automatic spending cuts and tax increases set to kick in if a deal is not reached by the end of the year.

Obama’s approval rating is up to 53 percent following his Election Day defeat of Mitt Romney.

“Nothing like winning an election to boost your job approval,” said the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute’s Peter A. Brown in a statement. “President Barack Obama hasn’t had a score this good since his 52 – 40 percent approval rating May 5, 2011, right after the death of Osama bin Laden.”

Voters also said they trusted Obama and the Democrats over Republicans to make a good faith effort at the bargaining table. Fifty-six percent said they expected the Democrats to act in good faith, while 51 percent said they believe congressional Republicans will not do the same.

While most voters supported the tax increase, they also felt strongly that some benefits should not be touched.

Sixty-seven percent opposed eliminating the home mortgage interest deduction, although 62 percent approved on limiting it to the first $500,000 of mortgage debt. Fifty-six percent also favor scrapping the deduction for second homes.

Seventy percent of those polled said they oppose cutting Medicaid spending.

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...3#ixzz2EID5Cdz9

#225 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

Of that 65%, how many do you think are in that income bracket?

2,000 pollers....is not a majority of voters...but at any rate, I wonder how many would be favorable to an increase in their taxes.

#226 concert andy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Of that 65%, how many do you think are in that income bracket?

2,000 pollers....is not a majority of voters...but at any rate, I wonder how many would be favorable to an increase in their taxes.


Minimal, or the 35% who said no.

#227 Tim the Beek

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

Posted Image

#228 PeaceFrog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

In the battle of the tarts, it turns out that Ann Coulter has more sense than Sean Hannity. Who would have known?



#229 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

How ridiculous can Republicans get? Mitch McConnell filibusters against his own Senate bill!

Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:08 pm by Pat Cunningham

http://blogs.e-rockf...wn-senate-bill/

Posted Image

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell got a little too cute for his own good today, as we seeHERE:

A move to embarrass Democrats backfired on Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell Thursday as the Kentucky Republican proposed a vote on raising the nation’s debt ceiling — then filibustered it when the Democrats tried to take him up on the offer.

On Thursday morning McConnell had made a motion for the vote on legislation that would let the president extend the country’s borrowing limit on his own. Congress would then have the option to disapprove such hikes, in a fashion similar to one that McConnell first suggested during last year’s standoff over the debt ceiling.

The minority leader apparently did not think Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) would take him up on his offer, which would have allowed McConnell to portray President Barack Obama’s desire for such authority as something even Democrats opposed.

Reid objected at first, but told McConnell he thought it might be a good idea. After Senate staff reviewed the proposal, Reid came back to the floor and proposed a straight up-or-down vote on the idea.
McConnell was forced to say no.


“What we’re talking about here is a perpetual debt ceiling grant, in effect, to the president, ” McConnell said. “Matters of this level of controversy always require 60 votes.”

Sixty votes are required to end a filibuster during debate on a bill and hold a vote.
Democrats immediately seized on McConnell’s reversal, noting it was the sort of obstruction that they think warrants changes to the rules on filibusters.


“What we have here is a case of the Republicans here in the Senate once again not taking yes for an answer,” Reid said. “This morning the Republican leader asked consent to have a vote on his proposal. Just now I told everyone we’re willing to have that vote, an up-or-down vote, and now the Republican leader objects to his own idea, so I guess we have a filibuster of his own bill.”

#230 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

Like abortion has anything to do with this. Aer you always for abortion?

#231 capt_morgan

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

Posted Image

#232 deadheadskier

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:53 AM

...but at any rate, I wonder how many would be favorable to an increase in their taxes.


I'm the poorest I've been in almost 20 years. My town deperately needs a new high school. Reveur and I don't have kids. We hope to someday, but don't currently.
We'd stomach a property tax increase for the good of the community. Not a major property tax increase, but enough of one to fix current town education issues knowing we'd probably break even in the end by an increase in the value of our property.

#233 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:10 PM

Wouldn't going over the CLIFF, be voting for tax increases?

If so, How does the GOP answer to Grover?

#234 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

Economy Creates 146,000 Jobs, Rate Slides to 7.7%


With the economy showing signs of life (as I mentioned previously) and confirmed again with UE dropping every time a report comes out recently. This is why I am hopeful, because the economy is doing better regardless of their action. Now their non action could be bad for the health of the economy.

(Remember the GOP slamming Obama for rigging the UE number for the election?).

#235 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

The EU was adjusted up from the Oct. number. And those numbers are complete fabrications.

And the economy is being artificially pumped up again. Low interest rates, massive spending, etc...it's only a matter of time before we explode another bubble. Kang'd. Write it down.

#236 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

The EU was adjusted up from the Oct. number. And those numbers are complete fabrications.

And the economy is being artificially pumped up again. Low interest rates, massive spending, etc...it's only a matter of time before we explode another bubble. Kang'd. Write it down.


Your lack of faith is disturbing young padawan. :lol:

Complete fabrications? Isn't this the same numbers they have been reporting for decades now?

But that doesn't answer the question of Grover and the GOP.

#237 Joker

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

Oh look, another cliff.




Calling for stimulus, Democrats cite 'real cliff' if jobless benefits aren't extended

Democratic senators said Thursday that the economy is still weak enough that it needs more federal stimulus spending as part of any year-ending fiscal deal with Republicans.

Senate Democratic Policy Committee chairman Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., told reporters, “I believe you need a stimulus. It could be a payroll tax (cut), it could be something else, but you need some kind of ‘oomph’ to the economy in this first year, particularly now that the statistics show it’s moving slowly.”

On Friday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that non-farm payroll employment increased by 146,000 in November, while the unemployment rate went from 7.9 percent in October to 7.7 percent last month.

"The number of unemployed persons, at 12.0 million, changed little," the BLS report said. The number of long-term unemployed, those Americans who were jobless for 27 weeks or more, was little changed at 4.8 million in November.

And the number of people in the labor force -- either working or actively looking for work -- dropped by 350,000.

Schumer and other Democrats said at a Capitol press conference Thursday that an extension of emergency unemployment insurance benefits must be part of any year-ending "fiscal cliff" deal.

The Democratic senators cited the need to spur a sluggish economy, which had a 7.9 percent jobless rate in October. An extended unemployment benefit “produces a major economic stimulus,” said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I. His state has a 10.4 percent unemployment rate.

“We’re all talking about a stimulus. How do we get the economy moving? This is the best stimulus there is,” Schumer said.

He and other Democrats gave a textbook Keynesian argument for continued unemployment payments to those who might otherwise lose them at year end. People who get unemployment checks “are going to the local stores, they are increasing demand,” Reed said.

The Democrats said the heated, weeks-long debate on the fiscal cliff of spending cuts and tax increases seemed somewhat unreal and theoretical to some of their hard-pressed constituents.

While congressional leaders wrangle over the fiscal cliff, “two million Americans are now looking over a real cliff,” Reed said.

More
http://nbcpolitics.n...t-extended?lite

#238 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

There is always another reason to scare the cattle with the prod.

It never ends. Mark it down now. Regardless of what they do, we are building another bubble right now that will burst. When Paul called the housing bubble in 2001, he put no date on his prediction. I'm going to go a step further than hiim and say that by 2019, without a REAL shift in policies, we're going to burst another bubble that will make the 2007 one look like childs play. Mark it down, dagnabits.

#239 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

There is always another reason to scare the cattle with the prod.

It never ends. Mark it down now. Regardless of what they do, we are building another bubble right now that will burst. When Paul called the housing bubble in 2001, he put no date on his prediction. I'm going to go a step further than hiim and say that by 2019, without a REAL shift in policies, we're going to burst another bubble that will make the 2007 one look like childs play. Mark it down, dagnabits.


I agree in theory, but I doubt it will be worse than 2007-2008.

In 2007 - 2008 everything was way over valued and the market eventually corrected it. A lot of people were over extended and into personal debt to their eyes, and banks could not turn the properties around that they held as collateral fast enough.

What would make 2019 worse than 2008?

#240 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

Oh look, another cliff.




Calling for stimulus, Democrats cite 'real cliff' if jobless benefits aren't extended

Democratic senators said Thursday that the economy is still weak enough that it needs more federal stimulus spending as part of any year-ending fiscal deal with Republicans.

Senate Democratic Policy Committee chairman Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., told reporters, “I believe you need a stimulus. It could be a payroll tax (cut), it could be something else, but you need some kind of ‘oomph’ to the economy in this first year, particularly now that the statistics show it’s moving slowly.”

On Friday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that non-farm payroll employment increased by 146,000 in November, while the unemployment rate went from 7.9 percent in October to 7.7 percent last month.

"The number of unemployed persons, at 12.0 million, changed little," the BLS report said. The number of long-term unemployed, those Americans who were jobless for 27 weeks or more, was little changed at 4.8 million in November.

And the number of people in the labor force -- either working or actively looking for work -- dropped by 350,000.

Schumer and other Democrats said at a Capitol press conference Thursday that an extension of emergency unemployment insurance benefits must be part of any year-ending "fiscal cliff" deal.

The Democratic senators cited the need to spur a sluggish economy, which had a 7.9 percent jobless rate in October. An extended unemployment benefit “produces a major economic stimulus,” said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I. His state has a 10.4 percent unemployment rate.

“We’re all talking about a stimulus. How do we get the economy moving? This is the best stimulus there is,” Schumer said.

He and other Democrats gave a textbook Keynesian argument for continued unemployment payments to those who might otherwise lose them at year end. People who get unemployment checks “are going to the local stores, they are increasing demand,” Reed said.

The Democrats said the heated, weeks-long debate on the fiscal cliff of spending cuts and tax increases seemed somewhat unreal and theoretical to some of their hard-pressed constituents.

While congressional leaders wrangle over the fiscal cliff, “two million Americans are now looking over a real cliff,” Reed said.

More
http://nbcpolitics.n...t-extended?lite


I think they have to end UE at some point or what is the point of looking for a job?

I also think if someone collects UE, they should have to do community service, or be forced to volunteer, Clean roads or they do not collect. Something that encourages them to get a job.

#241 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

I agree in theory, but I doubt it will be worse than 2007-2008.

In 2007 - 2008 everything was way over valued and the market eventually corrected it. A lot of people were over extended and into personal debt to their eyes, and banks could not turn the properties around that they held as collateral fast enough.

What would make 2019 worse than 2008?


The 2001 recession (the NASDAQ bubble/burst) saw us go to 5% unemployment and it held there. To beat the moribund investment of the time and spur the economy, the federal reserve, once again, lowered interest rates to historical lows. This fed teh housing bubble that popped. Now we have a steady 8%. The bubble being built this time isn't one of over valued housing due to incredible, artificial demand (from low interest rates adn terrible congressional policies on home ownership). What we're building now is something entirely different. it's the dollar and the American Empire itself that is now the big bubble. There will be no safe havens, there will be no bail outs when it finally comes to a head. There are several ways that this can happen, But there are no places left for credit expansions to go now. Or else the low interest rates and QE injections would see a turn about in the economy, or a "boom". There is no boom, and yet instead of allowing the correction, we continue to make the same mistake.

it will be far worse, or lead to an attempt to create a global currency to offset a potential run ont he dollar. We wont know that until the dollar itself is in the position for those pumping the bubble (much like what happened in 2006-07) to see that they've made a grave mistake.

#242 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

People on unemployment are required to document their work search unless they obtain work solely through a union hiring hall.

I understand that people don't always do the right thing, and sometimes need incentives, but unemployment is only half (or less, actually because max here in NY is only $405) of what you normally make. I would think the cut in pay would be incentive enough for most people to try to find work.

My question is: if the roads need to be cleaned, then why isn't the city or town cleaning them? People should be getting paid to do that. Hire these unemployed people to do it, and problem solved.

#243 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

additionally, if you are taking time away from unemployed people and making them work for half pay, they will have less time to find good paying work.

#244 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

Posted Image

#245 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

The 2001 recession (the NASDAQ bubble/burst) saw us go to 5% unemployment and it held there. To beat the moribund investment of the time and spur the economy, the federal reserve, once again, lowered interest rates to historical lows. This fed teh housing bubble that popped. Now we have a steady 8%. The bubble being built this time isn't one of over valued housing due to incredible, artificial demand (from low interest rates adn terrible congressional policies on home ownership). What we're building now is something entirely different. it's the dollar and the American Empire itself that is now the big bubble. There will be no safe havens, there will be no bail outs when it finally comes to a head. There are several ways that this can happen, But there are no places left for credit expansions to go now. Or else the low interest rates and QE injections would see a turn about in the economy, or a "boom". There is no boom, and yet instead of allowing the correction, we continue to make the same mistake.

it will be far worse, or lead to an attempt to create a global currency to offset a potential run ont he dollar. We wont know that until the dollar itself is in the position for those pumping the bubble (much like what happened in 2006-07) to see that they've made a grave mistake.


Ah... The value of the dollar.

I do not think there will be a global "dollar/euro/wan" whatever anytime soon. And by that I mean before the 22nd century. Why? For the same reason i described in my Euro conversation in Europe in 1997. Because there are to many small countries that have debt problems too.

By consolidating money globally, will be just as volatile as the Euro today.

Does this all circle back (in theory) to Fiat money? And eventually it will crash because of the blow hard's who run this country can not be counted on to cut the deficit and secure our future.

#246 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

People on unemployment are required to document their work search unless they obtain work solely through a union hiring hall.

I understand that people don't always do the right thing, and sometimes need incentives, but unemployment is only half (or less, actually because max here in NY is only $405) of what you normally make. I would think the cut in pay would be incentive enough for most people to try to find work.

My question is: if the roads need to be cleaned, then why isn't the city or town cleaning them? People should be getting paid to do that. Hire these unemployed people to do it, and problem solved.

additionally, if you are taking time away from unemployed people and making them work for half pay, they will have less time to find good paying work.


Every country and district is in a financial crunch, and the first people to go will be this kind of worker. Why do you think prisoners clean the side of highways? Cheap labor.

Why not use the UE'd and help their community be a nicer cleaner place?

This also, gets people out of their house and into the world doing stuff, being productive, which may in theory lead to other jobs. We all know sitting around doing nothing, leads to more sitting around doing nothing when there is nothing on the horizon.

#247 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

Mark it down. 2019

#248 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

Every country and district is in a financial crunch, and the first people to go will be this kind of worker. Why do you think prisoners clean the side of highways? Cheap labor.

Why not use the UE'd and help their community be a nicer cleaner place?

This also, gets people out of their house and into the world doing stuff, being productive, which may in theory lead to other jobs. We all know sitting around doing nothing, leads to more sitting around doing nothing when there is nothing on the horizon.


I totally understand what you're getting at... some people need a little motivation or a push in the right direction -- I understand you're trying to come up with ideas how to do that, and I'm right there on the same page with you. People need to work and be productive just to stay healthy... for their own benefit, and for the good of the country.

The problem I see is that this "loophole" can be exploited just in order to get people to be slaves once again.

I think the solution is more in the direction of creating jobs and raising revenue... more like a climb up... instead of a race to the bottom.

Why not let unemployed people go to school and learn new skills that are in demand?

#249 concert andy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

Mark it down. 2019


I will take that as a yes.

:qyc:


:lol:

#250 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

actually, you might be onto something though. Because in the end it's the same thing... you're working for the government.

I'm not against it at all, actually... I'm for it.

Just one of those things where my first impression was bad, and then after I thought more about it I changed my mind.