30 replies to this topic

[concert andy]

FOUR GAY MEN say a Jersey City organization provided them with phony counseling sessions — including nudity and trash-talking one of their mothers — to “cure” their homosexuality when they were teenagers.

In a lawsuit filed in New Jersey Superior Court, the men, and two of their mothers, contend the sales pitch and methods used by Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing are fraudulent because homosexuality is not something that can be cured and the group’s techniques don’t work.

The young men said at a press conference that JONAH’s counseling sessions were humiliating and involved nudity, pillow beating and physical and verbal assaults.

Chaim Levin, 23, of Brooklyn said his mother, Bella Levin, spent more than $10,000 on his counseling over 18 months. He said he was brought into a locked, mirrored room with a male counselor twice his age and told to strip.

“I felt it was an unsafe environment. I was naked with a man twice my age and he told me to touch myself,” Levin said. “I resolved never to go back . . . never to talk about it.”

Benjamin Unger, 25, of Brooklyn said he was ordered to beat a pillow with a tennis racket and shout “Mom! Mom! Mom! Mom!” in synchronization with each blow.

“I had to beat my mother up to heal from being gay,” Unger said. JONAH counselors, he said, believe mothers are to blame if their sons are gay. Unger said he didn’t talk to his mom for months after that, but they are on good terms now.

The young men said they also were repeatedly placed in situations where others in therapy sessions screamed humiliating words like “faggots” and “homos” at them in mock locker room and gym settings. They said the goal was to make them mad and get in touch with their masculinity.

Levin and Unger said JONAH founder Arthur Goldberg, a disbarred lawyer from Jersey City, targets his pitch to Brooklyn’s Orthodox Jewish communities and to Mormons in Utah.Goldberg did not respond to calls left at his office and home. Neither did counselor Alan Downing of Jackson, N.J., who was identified in the lawsuit as the counselor who asked the young men to strip.

According to court papers, the conversion therapy used by JONAH has been discredited by the American Psychological Association and other professionals who contend homosexuality is normal, not to be cured, and that conversion therapy is dangerous because humiliation harms people.

The therapy sessions cited in the New Jersey lawsuit occurred between 2007 and 2009. Lawyers from the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Cleary Gottlieb firm of Manhattan attended the press conference with the men.

Two mothers are named as plaintiffs because they paid the bills: $100 for an individual session, $60 for each group session and $700 for weekend retreats. The plaintiffs seek unspecified triple damages and that JONAH be shut down.

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1209206

[Tim the Beek]

Jesus, what a sad world it is sometimes...

[concert andy]

Jesus, what a sad world it is sometimes...

Agreed.

It just surprises me that people still think that you can cure someone's sexuality.

[Joker]

Wait, so these were adults who voluntarily paid for this and didn't just walk out the door when they felt uncomfortable about what they were doing but instead kept returning for more?

Sounds like there are fools on both sides of this case

[concert andy]

FOUR GAY MEN say a Jersey City organization provided them with phony counseling sessions — including nudity and trash-talking one of their mothers — to “cure” their homosexuality when they were teenagers.

In a lawsuit filed in New Jersey Superior Court, the men, and two of their mothers, contend the sales pitch and methods used by Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing are fraudulent because homosexuality is not something that can be cured and the group’s techniques don’t work.

The young men said at a press conference that JONAH’s counseling sessions were humiliating and involved nudity, pillow beating and physical and verbal assaults.

Chaim Levin, 23, of Brooklyn said his mother, Bella Levin, spent more than $10,000 on his counseling over 18 months. He said he was brought into a locked, mirrored room with a male counselor twice his age and told to strip.

“I felt it was an unsafe environment. I was naked with a man twice my age and he told me to touch myself,” Levin said. “I resolved never to go back . . . never to talk about it.”

Benjamin Unger, 25, of Brooklyn said he was ordered to beat a pillow with a tennis racket and shout “Mom! Mom! Mom! Mom!” in synchronization with each blow.

“I had to beat my mother up to heal from being gay,” Unger said. JONAH counselors, he said, believe mothers are to blame if their sons are gay. Unger said he didn’t talk to his mom for months after that, but they are on good terms now.

The young men said they also were repeatedly placed in situations where others in therapy sessions screamed humiliating words like “faggots” and “homos” at them in mock locker room and gym settings. They said the goal was to make them mad and get in touch with their masculinity.

Levin and Unger said JONAH founder Arthur Goldberg, a disbarred lawyer from Jersey City, targets his pitch to Brooklyn’s Orthodox Jewish communities and to Mormons in Utah.Goldberg did not respond to calls left at his office and home. Neither did counselor Alan Downing of Jackson, N.J., who was identified in the lawsuit as the counselor who asked the young men to strip.

According to court papers, the conversion therapy used by JONAH has been discredited by the American Psychological Association and other professionals who contend homosexuality is normal, not to be cured, and that conversion therapy is dangerous because humiliation harms people.

The therapy sessions cited in the New Jersey lawsuit occurred between 2007 and 2009. Lawyers from the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Cleary Gottlieb firm of Manhattan attended the press conference with the men.

Two mothers are named as plaintiffs because they paid the bills: $100 for an individual session, $60 for each group session and $700 for weekend retreats. The plaintiffs seek unspecified triple damages and that JONAH be shut down.

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1209206

Sorry, you must not have read the first sentence. They were teenagers. And are just now complaining. They should complain to their mother for sending them and paying for this service, instead of suing. But that is another issue.

[TakeAStepBack]

It's such a curious thing that humans feel compelled to try and "fix" other people in so many ways. Why are we so afraid of freedom is my question? Why do we, as humans overall, at every turn attempt to fix/solve/erradicate/etc.. every single portion of the human spirit and human actions we do not believe to me morally right or correct?

I just will never understand it. Ever.

In certain instances, I think that intervention is necessary. Like when people harm or fraud one another. We certainly do need ways to address and curtail such behavior as best we can. But things like sexual orientation, religious or conscience views, etc... it just doesn't make sense to me.

I guess that it is just the human condition. We, overall, just can not help ourselves but to meddle in these ways and somehow feel justified in doing so.

[Joker]

Sorry, you must not have read the first sentence. They were teenagers. And are just now complaining. They should complain to their mother for sending them and paying for this service, instead of suing. But that is another issue.

I read it, I also read how they're 23 and 25 now which means they were both probably 18 and adults at the time

[concert andy]

I read it, I also read how they're 23 and 25 now which means they were both probably 18 and adults at the time

Wow.

[concert andy]

Chaim was 16, can't find others age's yet.

http://www.cnn.com/2...erapy-response/

Chaim Levin, also an orthodox Jew, was about to turn 17 in 2007 when he talked to his parents about his sexual orientation and sexual abuse when he was younger. A rabbi in his Brooklyn, New York, community suggested to his parents that they enroll him in JONAH's program.

[concert andy]

Oh and what does the age matter?

Some young people want their parents acceptance so badly, that they will do what ever it takes, even doing stuff they do not believe it.

[TakeAStepBack]

Some people just want to be accepted for who they are in society, not necessarily anyone in particular. It reminds me so much of the tome of colonial times history I'm reading with regards to religious persecution. Man, we can be evil assholes on a general scale.
It's a control thing. It has to be.

[concert andy]

Found there ages...

Ferguson was in his 20s and Unger, Levin and Bruck were in their late teens when they underwent the therapy, according to the lawsuit.

http://usnews.nbcnew...on-therapy?lite

[concert andy]

Some people just want to be accepted for who they are in society, not necessarily anyone in particular. It reminds me so much of the tome of colonial times history I'm reading with regards to religious persecution. Man, we can be evil assholes on a general scale.
It's a control thing. It has to be.

This. I agree with this, but in this case, it was the kids parents who sent them, so I feel this case is their parents pressured them and the kids wanting to be accepted (by their parents and broadly too as TASB) mentioned.

[TakeAStepBack]

Oh, most certainly. Obviously they were looking for acceptance. But it seems strange that they would under-go therapy to try to "remove the demons" as a way to getting that acceptance. The parents should really be ashamed of themselves for essentially (as far as i see it anyway) destroying trust in their children. I know if I was one of them, there wouldn't be much reconciliation from such an ordeal.

The lawsuit to me is another matter. One I'd need more details on in order to comment. But this "service" isn't the problem. The parents are the problem here.

[Tim the Beek]

But this "service" isn't the problem. The parents are the problem here.

By my reckoning, they're both the problem...anyone who would aim to make money off of berating someone for who they are, and trying to them into someone different, and parents who would push their kids into that out of their own fears...JMO

[TakeAStepBack]

By my reckoning, they're both the problem...anyone who would aim to make money off of berating someone for who they are, and trying to them into someone different, and parents who would push their kids into that out of their own fears...JMO

Well, yeah. But a "service" such as this only exists based on demand. The whole supply/demand thing.

I'm not going to say I think their "service" is a good thing. But participation is voluntary for a fee. So the real problem here are the people that would send their children into such an ordeal and actually pay these people for it. I could start a service selling bags of human shit too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get any custeez.

[Joker]

Their ages matter because if they were adults, and it sounds like most of them were then they could have just walked out (even Chaim would have turned 18 and still been attending as he attended for 18 months)

Like I said fools on both sides and now they want a pay day for being stupid.

[Tim the Beek]

I could start a service selling bags of human shit too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get any custeez.

All in the naming and marketing, brehm.

[Tim the Beek]

And I agree about them that creates the demand, but I think the suppliers in this case are Grade A leeches, and that they're also indicative of a really troubling society.

[TakeAStepBack]

And I agree about them that creates the demand, but I think the suppliers in this case are Grade A leeches, and that they're also indicative of a really troubling society.

Agreed.

[JBetty]

Well, yeah. But a "service" such as this only exists based on demand. The whole supply/demand thing.

I'm not going to say I think their "service" is a good thing. But participation is voluntary for a fee. So the real problem here are the people that would send their children into such an ordeal and actually pay these people for it. I could start a service selling bags of human shit too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get any custeez.

Poopsenders has custeez.

http://www.poopsenders.com/

[concert andy]

Their ages matter because if they were adults, and it sounds like most of them were then they could have just walked out (even Chaim would have turned 18 and still been attending as he attended for 18 months)

Like I said fools on both sides and now they want a pay day for being stupid.

While I agree in general they SHOULD HAVE just walked out, but the peer, parental, and religious pressures are a bigger factor here, and must be considered.


Not all people have the balls to just walk out, when their entire lives they have been taught by society in general that the feelings they are having are not natural, and here is something you can do to change all that.

The, Do this therapy and you will be "fixed".

May be some of them just want it to work so badly that they try? Is that even a consideration?



The lawsuit is not a solution and could be seen as a money grab, other than to point out to other young gay people that this type therapy is not an actual solution to what is perceived by others as a problem.

[TakeAStepBack]

All good poiints, Andy. But I dont think peer/religious pressure are good arguments in court.

[concert andy]

All good poiints, Andy. But I dont think peer/religious pressure are good arguments in court.

Agreed. This is a terrible lawsuit. They should be suing for being tortured, not for voluntarily agreeing to attend this therapy. Also, the point that the parents are plantiffs also, makes this case awful.

[TakeAStepBack]

Oh, the parents are plaintiffs? I thought they were sitting on the defense......strange days. Or maybe strange world. I can't call it anymore.

[concert andy]

Last sentence of the story...

Two mothers are named as plaintiffs because they paid the bills: $100 for an individual session, $60 for each group session and $700 for weekend retreats. The plaintiffs seek unspecified triple damages and that JONAH be shut down.

Agreed, hence why I posted this story.

There is so many oxymorans about this story, the tragedy that these young men trying to fix themselves, and because society in general thinks they are broken.

[Joker]

Is it really torture if you voluntarily agree to it and are free to leave when you choose? They were simply duped into believing something that has proven to be false decades ago

Four former JONAH clients, who were teens when they signed up for help, filed a consumer fraud lawsuit against JONAH and two of its counselors Tuesday, saying they were defrauded by JONAH's claim that "being gay is a mental disorder" that could be reversed by conversion therapy -- "a position rejected by the American Psychiatric Association four decades ago," the lawsuit said.

Hell at least one of these was done through an online video link all he had to do was turn the damn thing off.


Jo Bruck, Sheldon's mother, and Bella Levin, the mother of plaintiff Chaim Levin, are also plaintiffs because they paid for their sons' conversion therapy and the counseling the suit said they needed to recover from it.
The conversion therapy techniques described in the suit included having them strip naked in group sessions, cuddling and intimate holding of others of the same sex, violently beating an effigy of their mothers with a tennis racket, visiting bath houses "in order to be nude with father figures," and being "subjected to ridicule as 'faggots' and 'homos' in mock locker room scenarios."
"As long as you put in the effort, you're going to change," Goldberg told Bruck, the lawsuit said.
JONAH counselor Thaddeus Heffner blamed Bruck's gay orientation "on Bruck for not working hard enough to change, on his father for being too distant, and on his mother for being too close to him," the suit said.
Bruck quit after five sessions, delivered through an online video link, because he "experienced deepening depression and anxiety leading to suicidal ideation and feelings of hopelessness about his life," the suit said.

[concert andy]

Is it really torture if you voluntarily agree to it and are free to leave when you choose? They were simply duped into believing something that has proven to be false decades ago

Four former JONAH clients, who were teens when they signed up for help, filed a consumer fraud lawsuit against JONAH and two of its counselors Tuesday, saying they were defrauded by JONAH's claim that "being gay is a mental disorder" that could be reversed by conversion therapy -- "a position rejected by the American Psychiatric Association four decades ago," the lawsuit said.

Hell at least one of these was done through an online video link all he had to do was turn the damn thing off.


Jo Bruck, Sheldon's mother, and Bella Levin, the mother of plaintiff Chaim Levin, are also plaintiffs because they paid for their sons' conversion therapy and the counseling the suit said they needed to recover from it.
The conversion therapy techniques described in the suit included having them strip naked in group sessions, cuddling and intimate holding of others of the same sex, violently beating an effigy of their mothers with a tennis racket, visiting bath houses "in order to be nude with father figures," and being "subjected to ridicule as 'faggots' and 'homos' in mock locker room scenarios."
"As long as you put in the effort, you're going to change," Goldberg told Bruck, the lawsuit said.
JONAH counselor Thaddeus Heffner blamed Bruck's gay orientation "on Bruck for not working hard enough to change, on his father for being too distant, and on his mother for being too close to him," the suit said.
Bruck quit after five sessions, delivered through an online video link, because he "experienced deepening depression and anxiety leading to suicidal ideation and feelings of hopelessness about his life," the suit said.

Torture is prolly too strong a word, but doesn't the place that provided the Therapy have some liability here?

I mean these were people taking advantage of people who just wanted help.

[Joker]

They might be guilty of not supplying what they said they would if they guaranteed they could "cure" them and didn't, but I can't see anything else they could be held responsible

[concert andy]

They might be guilty of not supplying what they said they would if they guaranteed they could "cure" them and didn't, but I can't see anything else they could be held responsible

Agreed.

I think it may have been these teenagers had "orthodox Jewish parents", they tend to be VERY OLD SCHOOL. They can be very strict, and very religious.

http://www.cnn.com/2...erapy-response/

[Joker]

And without a doubt there's a history of sexual abuse by their clergy that gets covered up much like what happened with the Catholic priests.