117 replies to this topic

[Royal]

Just another viewpoint on the topic of whether or not disability proves anything being a good parent.

[TEO]

Reading his full thread, I am quite certain he gets it.

[Royal]

Reading his full thread, I am quite certain he gets it.

Reading his full thread I am quite certain that he and most of the posters in the thread do not get it. They should try walkin a mile in somebody's shoes.

[Jwheelz]

I actually have to go ahead and (mostly) agree with Royal on this one... I understand U_C was referring to a situation that specifically concerned someone in his life... I also understand that it wasn't meant in any way with hostility to those of us on here who suffer from some disability or illness or another similar type of thing... but the fact is there are a number of us here who currently cannot work because of disabilities and I think it's a little bit concerning that people would so lightly joke around that people like myself or Ryan might not be fit parents because of the fact that we're disabled... yes there's a difference between mental and physical illness but in the same token, they are both things which can be dealt with and overcome, and it's pretty shocking actually to think how pervasive attitudes still seem to be about who gets to define what people with disabilities can and can't do... and again I understand the need to blow off steam about specific topics and things going on in our lives, [universe] knows both of us have done the same... I guess I just want to express that I can understand it rubbing people the wrong way including myself, and there's probably a lot of other people on here dealing with various issues that they simply don't care to speak about publicly who might be upset by seeing stuff like that. No ill feelings from me, but I just wanted to put that perspective out there.

[PeaceFrog]

I think every situation is different, which is why we have a court system to scrutinize the details and come to a judgment.

I don't think a mental illness automatically disqualifies a person from being a good parent, but again -- every situation is unique.

[Royal]

I actually have to go ahead and (mostly) agree with Royal on this one... I understand U_C was referring to a situation that specifically concerned someone in his life... I also understand that it wasn't meant in any way with hostility to those of us on here who suffer from some disability or illness or another similar type of thing... but the fact is there are a number of us here who currently cannot work because of disabilities and I think it's a little bit concerning that people would so lightly joke around that people like myself or Ryan might not be fit parents because of the fact that we're disabled... yes there's a difference between mental and physical illness but in the same token, they are both things which can be dealt with and overcome, and it's pretty shocking actually to think how pervasive attitudes still seem to be about who gets to define what people with disabilities can and can't do... and again I understand the need to blow off steam about specific topics and things going on in our lives, [universe] knows both of us have done the same... I guess I just want to express that I can understand it rubbing people the wrong way including myself, and there's probably a lot of other people on here dealing with various issues that they simply don't care to speak about publicly who might be upset by seeing stuff like that. No ill feelings from me, but I just wanted to put that perspective out there.

I cant say it any better than this, thank you Jordan. I probably should have tamed down my title/post but I react quickly to emotions. Like when I post everyone hates me, its just one moment in the day where I feel that way.

[TEO]

Ah, not that I think either thread title appropriate to express the content/sentiments, I am under the impression she is fully capable of working, however chooses not to, rather than wanting to and either not being able to or given the opportunity.

[sarah b.]

A wise gypsy once said to me, "think twice, post once." I understand both points of view. While there were points when my mom was ill that I probably shouldn't have been in her custody, when she wasn't so stable, I would've lied and I did lie all the time to be able to stay with her and protect her. Now that she's been stable for about 20 years, her back is shot, and she is disabled. She's still a rock star, she'd be working, if her body were up to it, and I wouldn't change a thing. That said, when she was her most unwell, when i was a kid, she was usually working and running a private practice, when she wasn't in the hospital.

[gregoir]

I don't think mentally ill people are ideal parents I would go as far as to say they should not be parents. Doesn't make it mean just makes it a fact. If you can't hold down a basic job because it is too stressful, mentally draining etc. How are you supposed to be responsible for the physical, emotional and financial well being of a child. Hell I don't even think I am fit to raise a child at this point in my life.

[Royal]

A child would be lucky if he or she had me for a father. To answer Gregoir's question, parenthood changes people and a disabled person may rise to the challenge.

[Royal]

Ask Creekie's Julia or Kindspirit67's Lauren how I am around kids.

[Java Time]

I don't think mentally ill people are ideal parents I would go as far as to say they should not be parents. Doesn't make it mean just makes it a fact. If you can't hold down a basic job because it is too stressful, mentally draining etc. How are you supposed to be responsible for the physical, emotional and financial well being of a child. Hell I don't even think I am fit to raise a child at this point in my life.

Sorry all but this it^^^


and sadly... on all accounts

But really...what Gregoir said

[Royal]

You have to look at the big picture. I became mentally ill in early 2001 and heroically worked with varying levels of success till 2007. Then from 2010 I've volunteered with great success.

[Java Time]

I guess I went to the school of thought that depression isn't really "mental illness" when I read or "mental illness"...but I will say this and I mean no offense to anyone...a baby is not 9-5 and there is no real schedule aside from feeding...

If depression keeps someone from being able to hold steady employment...are you going to be a great parent or just an ok not the worst parent

Children deserve better than the latter imho and no experience or qualification to refute(?)anyone else's opinion

[Julius]

It's very difficult to grasp what people with major disabilities are going through unless you've experienced it. If I hadn't worked with blind people and kids with severe autism for many years I would still be totally ignorant of what their capabilities were. Just the simple things like when to offer help and when to stay away take a lot of time to figure out. The first time I said "Nice to see you!" to a blind person I thought, ooops, was that the wrong thing to say?

So cut the guy a break. I bet he's learned a lot just by reading this. All we can do is improve our sensitivity, right?

[Royal]

Mental illness is a handicap. Jordan has a handicap and he is not limited in talents because of that. He can reply to threads so fast and with such wit. He has a great ear for music and he's a great story teller. These are just some of his talents. Handicaps dont limit you in your skills. I am handicapped too, and I dont want to trivialize Jordan's challenges but I too have talents that reach out beyond being handicapped. I could be a good cook, but I'm not, I could be a terrible writer but I'm an excellent writer.

There are some handicapped people who are or would be bad parents but I wouldnt say it's more that 50% of us. Some handicapped parents are great parents. My friend Andy's dad is paralyzed but he seems to be a wonderful parent to his 2 kids.

[Java Time]

OK just to be clear...I'mnot saying anyone here shouldn't or couldn't do anything about whatever...

I worked with people with a variety of disabilities at an early age (12ish) , I had family with disabilities, I also knew someone who happened to become disabled and was still a great dad...and a fucking awesome guy too I might add.

No one needs a break from me cuz I ain't talking about anyone boys n girls.

[gregoir]

I think a different aspect of the argument would be prior disabilty. If one becomes disabled and already has a kid is that different then someone that is already disabled and chooses to have children? Is the state now responsible to support said child even though the person already knew they were on a limited income due to the inability to work?

[sarah b.]

Involving the govt. is a different topic entirely. UBC didn't indicate that his daughters' mother is receiving funds from any govt. entity, he was just blowing off steam. Is it responsible for folks who can't afford to have kids to have kids, regardless of their employment status? Nah. Are there plenty of people who would be great parents, if they could afford to have kids? Absolutely. Blanket statements, including my own, aren't incredibly practical, sometimes.

[Tabbooma]

Well said...

I actually have to go ahead and (mostly) agree with Royal on this one... I understand U_C was referring to a situation that specifically concerned someone in his life... I also understand that it wasn't meant in any way with hostility to those of us on here who suffer from some disability or illness or another similar type of thing... but the fact is there are a number of us here who currently cannot work because of disabilities and I think it's a little bit concerning that people would so lightly joke around that people like myself or Ryan might not be fit parents because of the fact that we're disabled... yes there's a difference between mental and physical illness but in the same token, they are both things which can be dealt with and overcome, and it's pretty shocking actually to think how pervasive attitudes still seem to be about who gets to define what people with disabilities can and can't do... and again I understand the need to blow off steam about specific topics and things going on in our lives, [universe] knows both of us have done the same... I guess I just want to express that I can understand it rubbing people the wrong way including myself, and there's probably a lot of other people on here dealing with various issues that they simply don't care to speak about publicly who might be upset by seeing stuff like that. No ill feelings from me, but I just wanted to put that perspective out there.

[Tim the Beek]

Reading his full thread, I am quite certain he gets it.

This, in spades.

Really don't see a reason for this thread, Ryan, as what UC was saying really has nothing to do with what you're saying, IMO. I understand that it's a sensitive subject, but his point was very different from the one you're writing to...

If I hadn't worked with blind people and kids with severe autism for many years I would still be totally ignorant of what their capabilities were.

This reads as if you have a heart. I'm quite disenchanted by that notion.

[PieDoh]

Involving the govt. is a different topic entirely. UBC didn't indicate that his daughters' mother is receiving funds from any govt. entity, he was just blowing off steam. Is it responsible for folks who can't afford to have kids to have kids, regardless of their employment status? Nah. Are there plenty of people who would be great parents, if they could afford to have kids? Absolutely. Blanket statements, including my own, aren't incredibly practical, sometimes.

nope

[Karen]

I agree with Royal and JWheelz comments that being disabled having no impact on one's ability to parent are true.

In addition, I am 100% certain that UC is not specifically referring to people with disabilities and their ability to parent in his thread. By reading the title of his thread and fsubsequent posts in that thread (several times) it is my belief that he is specifically discussing one person and his experience with her in a perhaps tongue in cheek kind manner. This is likely a more personal thing that he is venting about amongst boardie friends.

Yes, one could argue that well 'he used the term mentally ill' and 'he was talking about the ability to be a parent' etc. However, if you really read the thread you can likely pick up on the true nature and tone of what he is trying to say rather than focus on the semantics of it..

BTW misunderstanding one's true sentiments in the written word is not uncommon! We all know that from being on these boards, right?

[TEO]

I agree with Royal and JWheelz comments that being disabled having no impact on one's ability to parent are true.

In addition, I am 100% certain that UC is not specifically referring to people with disabilities and their ability to parent in his thread. By reading the title of his thread and fsubsequent posts in that thread (several times) it is my belief that he is specifically discussing one person and his experience with her in a perhaps tongue in cheek kind manner. This is likely a more personal thing that he is venting about amongst boardie friends.

Yes, one could argue that well 'he used the term mentally ill' and 'he was talking about the ability to be a parent' etc. However, if you really read the thread you can likely pick up on the true nature and tone of what he is trying to say rather than focus on the semantics of it..

BTW misunderstanding one's true sentiments in the written word is not uncommon! We all know that from being on these boards, right?

[Java Time]

I think a different aspect of the argument would be prior disabilty. If one becomes disabled and already has a kid is that different then someone that is already disabled and chooses to have children? Is the state now responsible to support said child even though the person already knew they were on a limited income due to the inability to work?

This post is approved by the Republican Party

[Tim the Beek]

BTW misunderstanding one's true sentiments in the written word is not uncommon! We all know that from being on these boards, right?

First I've heard of it.

[u.s.blues]

I think every situation is different, which is why we have a court system to scrutinize the details and come to a judgment.

I don't think a mental illness automatically disqualifies a person from being a good parent, but again -- every situation is unique.

i think this about sums it up. when i first read and commented on uc's thread, i was automatically assuming the worst case scenarios. like most things, disabilities are not a black and white thing...there are a lot of variables to consider and no two cases are the same.

[unbroken_chain]

looks like someone is getting a stick in his spokes and someone else is getting pantsd.

sometimes if you look up you'll see... whoops. too late.

[sarah b.]

Bravo, karen!

[unbroken_chain]

Look,

to have taken that thread out of context as yet another "someone is being me mean to me... and everyone who...." is purely silly. Unless your hand is directly in my wallet, I got your proverbial backs, hurt or not.

it should be noted that to be called "Unbie" has never thrilled me, but do I complain? no.

now fuck off and get a job.

[unbroken_chain]

Reading his full thread I am quite certain that he and most of the posters in the thread do not get it. They should try walkin a mile in somebody's shoes.

so should you, Junior.

[vinandtonic]

A child would be lucky if he or she had me for a father. To answer Gregoir's question, parenthood changes people and a disabled person may rise to the challenge.

but would you be able to be a good parent 24/7, 365 days a year? I don't think a non-mentally ill person could do that without the challenges that mental illness presents.

I dated a guy in college whose mother suffered from bipolar disorder. She was in and out of the mental facility her entire life. I know it affected him in a negative way. my friend who committed suicide 7 years ago suffered from depression/bipolar. his exwife suffered from the same and was in/out of the mental facility many times. what kind of life is that for their kid?

Not saying that a mentally ill person couldn't be a good parent, just that it would be a lot more challenging. Also not saying that UC was stating that all mentally ill people shouldn't be parents, he was just sharing his particular scenario.

[Phishfolk]

I also know parents that have used various mental conditions as an excuse to not contribute to their children's lives.

[unbroken_chain]

I was the primary care giver to both my girls... late night feeding? I'm on it. Screaming for hours cuz of an earache? I got this. Diaper needs changing... oh - no... you enjoy your 15th cigarette... I'm on it.

Royo, would you be cool and good to go driving down the road with a baby screaming at the top of their lungs... how about when they refuse to let you put their clothes on... they turn to yarn and REFUSE to cooperate. gotta be at work in ten minutes.... better hurry. Did you forget to warm the bottle? shit, she took her damn shoes off again. Why is the dog barking so much. oh my god did she just spit up on that beautiful sweater. I'm late for work. OMG mommy forgot the carseat in her car.... what's that smell. oh no....I JUST changed you!!! ok, I have shit on my tie.
You are the most beautiful baby, I love you... no matter what. that's 10 minutes on any given morning.... the ex couldn't handle it so well... she does better when folks can pretty much self suffice. Not her fault, I reckon.

[unbroken_chain]

I also know parents that have used various mental conditions as an excuse to not contribute to their children's lives.

in my very unique in specific to me scenario... it's used as an excuse of convenience whenever convenient, which often inconveniences me.

[musicfan]

so should you, Junior.

[JBetty]

I was the primary care giver to both my girls... late night feeding? I'm on it. Screaming for hours cuz of an earache? I got this. Diaper needs changing... oh - no... you enjoy your 15th cigarette... I'm on it.

Royo, would you be cool and good to go driving down the road with a baby screaming at the top of their lungs... how about when they refuse to let you put their clothes on... they turn to yarn and REFUSE to cooperate. gotta be at work in ten minutes.... better hurry. Did you forget to warm the bottle? shit, she took her damn shoes off again. Why is the dog barking so much. oh my god did she just spit up on that beautiful sweater. I'm late for work. OMG mommy forgot the carseat in her car.... what's that smell. oh no....I JUST changed you!!! ok, I have shit on my tie.
You are the most beautiful baby, I love you... no matter what. that's 10 minutes on any given morning.... the ex couldn't handle it so well... she does better when folks can pretty much self suffice. Not her fault, I reckon.

Ahh the good old days!
Then they turn into teenagers and the fun REALLY begins!

[unbroken_chain]

a certain somebody forgot to indicate the glaring fact that I am a raging misogynist cuz I called the xmissus the B word

[Ginger Snap]

I think a different aspect of the argument would be prior disabilty. If one becomes disabled and already has a kid is that different then someone that is already disabled and chooses to have children? Is the state now responsible to support said child even though the person already knew they were on a limited income due to the inability to work?

What is the alternative? The state not provide support to the family thus the child still is not taken care of? or wait, why don't we sterilize the would be parents so the problem is moot. Oh wait- our society has already tried that. The state provides aid based on need, not morality.

[china cat]

a certain somebody forgot to indicate the glaring fact that I am a raging misogynist cuz I called the xmissus the B word

woman hater

[Ginger Snap]

[TEO]

What is the alternative? The state not provide support to the family thus the child still is not taken care of? or wait, why don't we sterilize the would be parents so the problem is moot. Oh wait- our society has already tried that. The state provides aid based on need, not morality.

Probably slowly sterilizing the human race through our food supply at this point in time.

[unbroken_chain]

not to mention I have two daughters that I'm forced to be "nice" to and like, care about and shit. ugh.

[Jersey Thug]

this is a delicate topic, and we're all coming at this from our own personal perspectives. mine is that if someone is mentally unstable to the point of being unable to handle the oftentimes harsh realities of this world enough to (at a minimum) go out into it and be a productive member of society, they are not likely to be able to handle the very challenging and difficult task of raising a child - especially on their own. i say this as an adult child of two people who for various reasons had no business trying to raise one child, let alone 7.

i'm thankful every day for my life, but do i think my parents should have had anything to do with raising children? certainly not. lucky for the 7 of us, we managed to raise ourselves largely despite them, though we - ALL - struggle to some extent with the baggage we've carried into our adult lives. some went on to become unstable, mentally unfit parents themselves...not the best legacy to pass on to a child, though it's far too late to blame our parents for the choices and mistakes we've made as adults.

look...we've all seen far too many kids suffer because their parents didn't take into consideration everything that it takes to be a good parent. just about anyone can make a baby. it doesn't necessarily mean we should all parent. just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you are mentally prepared to do it. personal responsibility should factor largely into the decision, not just emotion.

i believe that any disability can be overcome with the right resources, tenacity and mindset. and that struggle can make you a stronger, more capable person and a great role model...but if you lack any of those and decide to parent anyway without getting the help you need FIRST, it isn't just you who suffers.

to answer the question implied in the thread title: i think if UC was injured in any way, he'd take responsibility for his care and do the work needed to keep going. and he'd do everything in his power to be a good parent throughout, including asking for help when needed. because that's the kind of parent he is...he steps up. he has always stepped up, where his daughters are concerned.

[Java Time]

What is the alternative? The state not provide support to the family thus the child still is not taken care of? or wait, why don't we sterilize the would be parents so the problem is moot. Oh wait- our society has already tried that. The state provides aid based on need, not morality.

Missed the point imo...but a prime example of the problem with our country...ME ME ME and and unwillingness to put the welfare of another human being before themselves. Failing to look at the big picture that has more than them in it.

[PeaceFrog]

If we started taking away the children of those whom are deemed "mentally ill," I fear that more people who need mental help will not get it for fear of getting their children taken away and/or stigmatized by society.

I think a person could be able to handle the responsibility of parenthood, but maybe the added burden of a full-time job pushes them past their breaking point.

Maybe they are outstanding caregivers when that's their only responsibility.

In addition, if you take away someone's children who is depressed... that seems like really kicking a person when they're down. It might be all they have left to live for.

*my comments are completely general and in no way directed at anyone's specific situation.

[Tim the Beek]

ME ME ME

You say that like it's a bad thing...

[Tim the Beek]

[unbroken_chain]

well, every time I hear of a parent who:

drove them and the kids into the river
drowned their baby in the tub
and all that horrible shit... ya hafta wonder.

some of these are related to domestic issues, but a lot of them are just unwell people who should not have been caring for young children.

[Java Time]

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Only a bad thing in reference to everyone else but ME ME ME