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Obama 'drone-warfare rulebook' condemned by human rights groups


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#151 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

right, so how is not voting "revoking consent" when the vote really has no bearing on anything.

How do you revoke consent at this point, is my point.



con·sent
/kənˈsɛnt/ Show Spelled [kuh n-sent] Show IPA

verb (used without object)
1.
to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often followed by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.
2.
Archaic. to agree in sentiment, opinion, etc.; be in harmony.




vol·un·tar·y
/ˈvɒl ənˌtɛr i/ Show Spelled [vol-uh n-ter-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural vol·un·tar·ies.

adjective
1.
done, made, brought about, undertaken, etc., of one's own accord or by free choice: a voluntary contribution.
2.
of, pertaining to, or acting in accord with the will: voluntary cooperation.
3.
of, pertaining to, or depending on voluntary action: voluntary hospitals.
4.
Law.
a.
acting or done without compulsion or obligation.
b.
done by intention, and not by accident: voluntary manslaughter.
c.
made without valuable consideration: a voluntary settlement




co·er·cion
/koʊˈɜr ʃən/ Show Spelled [koh-ur-shuh n] Show IPA

noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.

#152 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

This is getting boring because you are right and we are wrong, but we do not see where we are wrong. And your logic does not dictate otherwise to show what an arse you are.

#153 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

I can not believe I am wasting my time trying to have a reasonable, logical debate with you. So please, expect shots taken at every possible chance I get. Because that is all you are doing now. Hiding behind some BS reasoning.


I did not vote, so it is all of your fault. Hahaha, I am over laughing at you for choosing a turn sandwich. I did not choose either so I am better than you.

TASB, I am so pissed off at you right now. I am trying very hard not to say outright mean things, or physically threaten you.


Posted Image
oh man, reel that sucker in TASB!

#154 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:18 PM

con·sent
/kənˈsɛnt/ Show IPA

verb (used without object)
1.
to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often followed by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.
2.
Archaic. to agree in sentiment, opinion, etc.; be in harmony.




vol·un·tar·y
/ˈvɒl ənˌtɛr i/ Show IPA adjective, noun, plural vol·un·tar·ies.

adjective
1.
done, made, brought about, undertaken, etc., of one's own accord or by free choice: a voluntary contribution.
2.
of, pertaining to, or acting in accord with the will: voluntary cooperation.
3.
of, pertaining to, or depending on voluntary action: voluntary hospitals.
4.
Law.
a.
acting or done without compulsion or obligation.
b.
done by intention, and not by accident: voluntary manslaughter.
c.
made without valuable consideration: a voluntary settlement




co·er·cion
/koʊˈɜr ʃən/ Show IPA

noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.


Stop trying to justify yourself. You are right, we are wrong. We do not know as much as you. You are the almighty, and we are not as smart or advanced enough to comprehend like you do.

Can you start a cult and teach us all the ways TASB?

#155 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:20 PM

con·sent
/kənˈsɛnt/ Show IPA

verb (used without object)
1.
to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often followed by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.
2.
Archaic. to agree in sentiment, opinion, etc.; be in harmony.




vol·un·tar·y
/ˈvɒl ənˌtɛr i/ Show IPA adjective, noun, plural vol·un·tar·ies.

adjective
1.
done, made, brought about, undertaken, etc., of one's own accord or by free choice: a voluntary contribution.
2.
of, pertaining to, or acting in accord with the will: voluntary cooperation.
3.
of, pertaining to, or depending on voluntary action: voluntary hospitals.
4.
Law.
a.
acting or done without compulsion or obligation.
b.
done by intention, and not by accident: voluntary manslaughter.
c.
made without valuable consideration: a voluntary settlement




co·er·cion
/koʊˈɜr ʃən/ Show IPA

noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.


???
sorry, I reallly dont understand what conclusion I am supposed to draw from reading these three definitions, especially how it applies to my question "How do you revoke consent at this point?"

#156 Tim the Beek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

We prolly ought not get started on Lincoln. :mrgreen:

Rationale would have been a better word choice on my part than excuse...though I was speaking for myself and the decision I made.

I just don't find myself capable of supporting someone who, in my mind, is using extralegal means which result in the loss of innocent life....regardless of how often it's been done in the past.

#157 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:23 PM

I can not believe I am wasting my time trying to have a reasonable, logical debate with you. So please, expect shots taken at every possible chance I get. Because that is all you are doing now. Hiding behind some BS reasoning.


I did not vote, so it is all of your fault. Hahaha, I am over laughing at you for choosing a turn sandwich. I did not choose either so I am better than you.

TASB, I am so pissed off at you right now. I am trying very hard not to say outright mean things, or physically threaten you.


I didn't say any of that. That's all you.

Go ahead, take all the shots you want. Make your threats. Be pissed off.

#158 MeOmYo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:23 PM

Hoagie, you're just trolling. bad form.

#159 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

???
sorry, I reallly dont understand what conclusion I am supposed to draw from reading these three definitions, especially how it applies to my question "How do you revoke consent at this point?"


Jeebus.

Consent requires voluntary action. What we have here is not voluntary consent. It's coercion. My voluntary consent to participate is revoked. You have left the ability to coerce compliance.

#160 Tim the Beek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

TASB, I am so pissed off at you right now. I am trying very hard not to say outright mean things, or physically threaten you.


None of this is worth getting that worked up over...

#161 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:31 PM

None of this is worth getting that worked up over...


I know, and I will not actually do anything, but when you try to point out flaws in the logic, and even dumber logic, or the same logic that I disputed is used again in response. It is so annoying.

Then when I call him out on stuff, I get sarcasm, or 5 year old mentality in response. This is what upsets me. Not his logic. His logic to me, is an oxymoran.

#162 PeaceFrog

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:31 PM

Hoagie, you're just trolling. bad form.


are you an official referee here, now?

I'm glad that people with much more patience than I have got involved in these discussions. It was too much work for me all alone.

I'm glad I'm not the only communist troll on this board. :lol:

#163 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

Jeebus.

Consent requires voluntary action. What we have here is not voluntary consent. It's coercion. My voluntary consent to participate is revoked. You have left the ability to coerce compliance.


So what happens by you "revoking your consent"? You still exist, in this country. Do you just go about your day, in denial, and complain about how its all broken, and preach how the only way to change it is for full scale revolution and anarchy?

#164 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:33 PM

We prolly ought not get started on Lincoln. :mrgreen:

Rationale would have been a better word choice on my part than excuse...though I was speaking for myself and the decision I made.

I just don't find myself capable of supporting someone who, in my mind, is using extralegal means which result in the loss of innocent life....regardless of how often it's been done in the past.


Then you too should not vote, because ultimately the president will make an order and someone will lose their life, ours or theirs.

And yes, Lincoln should get his own thread. :)

#165 PeaceFrog

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:33 PM

I know, and I will not actually do anything, but when you try to point out flaws in the logic, and even dumber logic, or the same logic that I disputed is used again in response. It is so annoying.

Then when I call him out on stuff, I get sarcasm, or 5 year old mentality in response. This is what upsets me. Not his logic. His logic to me, is an oxymoran.


You're not the first person to notice this. I think it's good, though, to bring it to his attention. If more people do, maybe he'll realize that it actually is him that is wrong.

#166 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

I didn't say any of that. That's all you.

Go ahead, take all the shots you want. Make your threats. Be pissed off.


You can't take the sarcasm either when it is dished in your direction huh?

I took your basic premise and added dripping sarcasm. So yeah you did not say that, but the logical BS that comes out in your response is just, well, asinine.

#167 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

Yes, Hoag. I go about my day in denial. The same way you deny voluntary consent to murder of innocent people.

#168 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

TASB. I thought this was boring, why are you still posting?

#169 Tim the Beek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

Then you too should not vote, because ultimately the president will make an order and someone will lose their life, ours or theirs.

And yes, Lincoln should get his own thread. :)


I didn't. We'll see whether or not I do in the future. Depends. :mrgreen:

But if I do, it won't be for someone whom I know has committed what I view as illegal, unconstitutional acts of taking others' lives.

#170 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

Hoagie, you're just trolling. bad form.


When I troll, you'll know it.

I am just trying to illuminate TASB on how not voting does not equal withdrawing consent, and trying to get him to really give me a solid answer on what revoking consent A) acheives in the end, and B ) how its actually done, in a way that has some sort of meaningfulness for the public at large. All Im seeing here is someone who didnt vote, but has a LOT to say. Paradox

#171 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

Yes, Hoag. I go about my day in denial. The same way you deny voluntary consent to murder of innocent people.


Yup, and if you want me to pull the switch on someone on death row, I will gladly do so.

#172 Spidergawd

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

Now now boys. There's no reason to get shitty with each other. Let's all put our dicks back in our pants and stay civil, mmm-kay?

#173 PeaceFrog

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

There were more than 2 choices for President.

There was an unlimited number of choices, actually, since you can write anyone in that you want.

This fact makes it completely foolish to just not show up to vote.

It was pretty well documented opinion (through extensive polling) that the only 2 VIABLE candidates were Democrat or Republican... these are subtle differences that need to be understood.

Unless you are completely distrustful of the polls, then the only sensible thing for someone to do would be to vote for the more mainstream candidate that they prefer - unless they weren't very strongly against either one.

And if you're that leery of the polling procedures, start your own polling company.

#174 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

Um, OK.....

#175 Tim the Beek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

When I troll, you'll know it.

I am just trying to illuminate TASB on how not voting does not equal withdrawing consent...


well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. :mrgreen:

I think it's a step in the right direction. You think different. So you suck.

Or maybe you don't.

Maybe we just looked at the available info, and came to different conclusions. :bliss:

#176 Tim the Beek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

Now now boys. There's no reason to get shitty with each other. Let's all put our dicks back in our pants and stay civil, mmm-kay?


You used to be fun.

:funny1:

#177 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

I didn't. We'll see whether or not I do in the future. Depends. :mrgreen:

But if I do, it won't be for someone whom I know has committed what I view as illegal, unconstitutional acts of taking others' lives.


But you know in the future when elected, using history as a lesson, that person will kill. You may not even know it is happening until long after you have voted.

Now what?

Oh, and you are one of those who likes to have a thoughtful opinion, but doesn't express his when given the chance to participate.

So keep on thinking you are on the high moral seat. Just remember, if Romney won, the Supreme court could take away the rights of loved ones, or others who feel the same way as you.

So keep on using your logic to justify your not voting, but it is everyone else in this great country you are letting down, you too TASB.

Good for you.

#178 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

"This fact makes it completely foolish to just not show up."


seems elementary to me.

#179 Spidergawd

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

You used to be fun.

:funny1:


Smoke and mirrors, man. Posted Image

#180 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

When I troll, you'll know it.

I am just trying to illuminate TASB on how not voting does not equal withdrawing consent, and trying to get him to really give me a solid answer on what revoking consent A) acheives in the end, and B ) how its actually done, in a way that has some sort of meaningfulness for the public at large. All Im seeing here is someone who didnt vote, but has a LOT to say. Paradox


It achieves preservation of integrity and principle. How it's done? Easily, by revoking voluntary consent. How it has meaningfulness to the public at large? I never said it was. But the logical fallacies just run through like a freight train.
So because I revoked my voluntary consent, I'm now stripped of my ability to converse on it as well?

Boy, you little dictators never get enough. Next I'll be tied to the back of a cart and whipped through every town on my way out of the colony.

#181 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

The only way to really voice your opinion is to participate in the system. Otherwise, you really are like the mother who sits and does nothing as her daughter is abused by her husband, while having the power to stop it by raising your voice.

Staying silent/doing nothing is not SAYING that you revoke consent in any way. It just means you are silent.

#182 hoagie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

What value does staying silent have, if it is not meaningful in any way?

#183 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

It achieves preservation of integrity and principle. How it's done? Easily, by revoking voluntary consent. How it has meaningfulness tot eh public at large? I never said it did. But the logical fallacies just run through like a freight train.
So because I revoked my voluntary consent, I'm now strippped of my abilityt o converse on it as well?

Boy, you little dictators never get enough. Next I'll be tied tot he back of a cart and whipped through every town on my way out of the colony.


That sarcasm, is what makes no sense.

Us dictators? What does that even mean?

All I am trying to do is show how dumb your logic is, outside of your little bubble.

Oh and you are still talking?

#184 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

The only way to really voice your opinion is to participate in the system. Otherwise, you really are like the mother who sits and does nothing as her daughter is abused by her husband, while having the power to stop it by raising your voice.

Staying silent/doing nothing is not SAYING that you revoke consent in any way. It just means you are silent.


I voiced my opinion here. And you have it backwards. It is your voluntary consent of a man who kills innocent civilians and sits silently, not me. I didn't consent to it.

Perhaps a revisit on the definitions of consent, voluntary and coercion are in order.

#185 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:51 PM

I voiced my opinion here. And you have it backwards. It is your voluntary consent of a man who kills innocent civilians and sits silently, not me. I didn't consent to it.

Perhaps a revisit on the definitions of consent, voluntary and coercion are in order.


If this is true, why are the people of the US not brought to justice?

#186 MeOmYo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:52 PM

If this is true, why are the people of the US not brought to justice?


brought to justice by whom? :lol:

#187 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:52 PM

That sarcasm, is what makes no sense.

Us dictators? What does that even mean?

All I am trying to do is show how dumb your logic is, outside of your little bubble.

Oh and you are still talking?


Like the way you show Jack?

Give it a break dude. I don't really care if you agree with me or not. Fine, my logic is dumb according to Andy and I live in a bubble. Glad we got that out of the way. You sure you don't want to maybe take a physical swing too?

#188 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

brought to justice by whom? :lol:


Not sure, but we are murders, so someone should be help accountable.

#189 Spidergawd

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

Next I'll be tied to the back of a cart and whipped through every town on my way out of the colony.


Don't you threaten ME with a good time!

:funny1:

#190 MeOmYo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

Not sure, but we are murders, so someone should be help accountable.


agreed. but who is going to enforce accountability?

#191 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

Like the way you show Jack?

Give it a break dude. I don't really care if you agree with me or not. Fine, my logic is dumb according to Andy and I live in a bubble. Glad we got that out of the way. You sure you don't want to maybe take a physical swing too?


Jack and I agree on this topic. I think his outrage is misplaced, or too early. If a week from now this story dies, then he has a point.

His other point is that I am responsible for these murders because I voted for Obama. I disagree.

So how did I show jack? Why don't you read my entire thought process before telling me my logic is unsound. Instead of taking my last comment out of context with the entire thought process being left out of your response.

I tried to show jack he was backwards for his solution and feelings on gay marriage. This is a completely different subject.

You are on the other hand have been hiding behind this FIAT money argument, that the system is failed forever, and now I am a murderer. This is a line of many debates, and in each one I disagree with you on so many levals that I find it frustrating to have a intelligent conversation with you.

So how am I showing anyone anything except their logic makes no sense to me.

#192 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

agreed. but who is going to enforce accountability?


Ask Joker or TASB. They seem to be the ones who are outraged here.

#193 beerzrkr

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

Not sure, but we are murders, so someone should be help accountable.


9-11

#194 MeOmYo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:07 PM

Ask Joker or TASB. They seem to be the ones who are outraged here.


I'm not looking for outrage, I'm looking for an honest answer.

#195 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:09 PM

PS. At least I had the balls to post that I was that mad. I would never do it, but wow, you are so out of touch that I assume you live in a bubble.

#196 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:10 PM

I'm not looking for outrage, I'm looking for an honest answer.


I do not know. They may know. or may be they should find out, because their outrage would be saded if someone was put down for this.

#197 Tim the Beek

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

Oh, and you are one of those who likes to have a thoughtful opinion, but doesn't express his when given the chance to participate.


Um...I really don't know how to respond to this...I think it's pretty common knowledge that I express my opinions. A lot.

I may not express them in a disrespectful way, but that statement mystifies me.

And the rest of that post...I ain't playin'...not that way.

#198 PeaceFrog

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

let me get this straight, TASB wants to imprison every Obama supporter for murder (taking away their right to vote)...

and we're the dictatorS? :lol: yes PLURAL, DICTATORS!

that sure would make it a lot easier for your crony to win.

#199 concert andy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

Um...I really don't know how to respond to this...I think it's pretty common knowledge that I express my opinions. A lot.

I may not express them in a disrespectful way, but that statement mystifies me.

And the rest of that post...I ain't playin'...not that way.


You express thoughtful opinions that expand on my thought or hit what I was going for or ask pertinent questions that foster more conversation, but do not vote. I find this disheartening.

#200 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

Not sure, but we are murders, so someone should be help accountable.


And this is your version of logic, but mine is dumb. I never called you a murderer. I said you voluntarily consented to it by voting. And you did. IN a court of law, this could be considered an accessory.