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No More Twinkies?


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#51 gregoir

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

ya know....perhaps it has been the workers fault for years for this decline did ya ever think of that? who is making theses products?!? management? unioon workers can't submit new ideas to management or is it not in their job description?

maybe the union's position is money and not caring that their peeps are pushing out a shit product...you want more money to keep pushing out crap?!?

you act just like the big wigs that you are there to make sure shit like this doesn't happen....shameful greedy bastards :undecided:

those workers should have been happy enough that they still had a job at any pay cut!!!


So if your pay got cut to a point you couldn't make rent or provide for your family. You would just be happy and content? :dunno:

#52 Java Time

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

So if your pay got cut to a point you couldn't make rent or provide for your family. You would just be happy and content? :dunno:


Do we know what they were making an hour? I bet it is too much for what they did...and prolly more than 8%

Is no job going to help them keep their house, car payments?

Social services will. While they work...they'll get more that way than UE.

#53 china cat

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:28 PM

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#54 gregoir

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:30 PM

It's pathetic that Americans are outraged by the ending of a product most of them have not thought about or purchased in years. There are far bigger problems in the world and in this country then fucking nasty ass Twinkies.

#55 Tad Dense

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

It's pathetic that Americans are outraged by the ending of a product most of them have not thought about or purchased in years. There are far bigger problems in the world and in this country then fucking nasty ass Twinkies.


Nasty ass twinkees??? :wow:


This is the problem with America!!! :joker:

:lol:

#56 Jwheelz

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

I guess efforts to vilify unions and organized labor over the decades have had their effect. Some of the responses I've read on this thread are rather illuminating.

#57 alsoa

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:23 AM

It's pathetic that Americans are outraged by the ending of a product most of them have not thought about or purchased in years. There are far bigger problems in the world and in this country then fucking nasty ass Twinkies.


Like a war in Palestine?

#58 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:20 AM

Like a war in Palestine?


Yeah. but lets worry about fucking frosting

#59 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:01 AM

Yeah. but lets worry about fucking frosting


Us older folks grew up with em...we losing a security blanket

Still love ya brother :smile: :pimp:

#60 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:11 AM

some of these people crying about twinkies are the same ones who said let GM go bankrupt.

Should we bail out twinkies like we did GM?

You can blame the fall of every company on the employees -- if you're that much of an idiot.

Maybe Twinkies just aren't in demand anymore.

Nobody here even admits eating one in the past 30 years.

#61 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:11 AM

Us older folks grew up with em...we losing a security blanket

Still love ya brother :smile: :gregoir:


Too late our friendship is obviously over as we disagree about the importance of Twinkies :joker: :lol:

#62 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:16 AM

the whole country will feel the ripple effect from this. I'm sure... they'll be healthier.

#63 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:06 AM

Too late our friendship is obviously over as we disagree about the importance of Twinkies :joker: :lol:


:funny1:

#64 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:09 AM

the whole country will feel the ripple effect from this. I'm sure... they'll be healthier.


This is just a socialist coup...looks...whatever...

Force socialism through screwing up the economy :eek1:

#65 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:13 AM

WTF spell check Nazi's "look"...really?!? I did not type one of those letters :joker:

#66 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:31 AM

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Why should workers have to take a cut in pay when CEOs pay nearly doubled?

#67 deadheadskier

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:32 AM

ya know....perhaps it has been the workers fault for years for this decline did ya ever think of that? who is making theses products?!? management? unioon workers can't submit new ideas to management or is it not in their job description?

maybe the union's position is money and not caring that their peeps are pushing out a shit product...you want more money to keep pushing out crap?!?

you act just like the big wigs that you are there to make sure shit like this doesn't happen....shameful greedy bastards :undecided:

those workers should have been happy enough that they still had a job at any pay cut!!!


before you go ripping the union and workers, you might want to look at the bigger picture as to what actually is going on.

I'm just going to quote some buddies of mine laying out the details as their thoughts are bit more informed and well organized than I could put it myself.

Hostess is owned by a Venture Capital company like Romeny's Bain ... buy up a business, leverage the hell out of it and pay off the venture business and execs and then go into bankruptcy because of the debt and get many concessions from the employees. This is the second go around on bankruptcy and they were trying to get even more concessions from the employees. I think it's way too simple to blame this on the Union. It seems when VC gets involved sometimes they save the company sometimes they don't, but either way the VC company makes a crapload of money.



Hostess had almost a billion dollars in unfunded pension liability. The company wanted to stiff the workers on their pensions as part of worker concessions. I imagine those factories are mostly 50 years old and have a very old employee base. If you're a 50-something union worker counting on that pension for your retirement, that is a royal screwing. From the union point of view, if the company goes bankrupt, the Federal government steps in and honors the pension obligation. We've seen this over and over in other sectors like the airlines. The private capital guys who actually own the company don't care. They made sure Hostess is debt-financed with all their assets as collateral. Their money is the senior debt so they get their money out first (including interest at junk bond rates) and everybody else gets screwed.

So.... what this really was is playing games with bankruptcy law so the private capital guys get to ditch an enormous unfunded pension liability. Hostess will spring back to life as a brand. You'll be able to buy Twinkies. They'll be made with the same production equipment as last week. There's a good chance they'll be made in the same factories by the same workers. Our tax dollars will be propping up the pensions of the older employees and the "new-improved" retirement deal is likely to be a 401-K with no employer match just like everywhere else in the private sector.



The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation is the federal agency that backs the pension plans. Basically like the FDIC. Pension plans pay a tax to fund the corporation. Poorly funded plans pay more than well funded plans.



The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation was in the red $26 billion in 2011. It has run in the red 30 out of 37 years. Guess who made up the difference? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?



that would be you, me and everyone else Java. Your taxes are now going to fund the retirement pensions of a dissolved company, while the fat cat Venture Capitalists are laughing all the way to the bank.......probably an offshore bank at that.

The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp is the FDIC-like government guarantee organization that swallows up underfunded pension plans when a corporation goes bankrupt. For the most part, these are pensions for union workers. The maximum benefit is $50-ish thousand and they can't collect until age 65. Right now, they're paying pensions for 600-odd thousand people but that number is going to jump significantly.

Like I said, I object to the financial slight of hand where private capital companies can use debt financing to jump into failing companies with huge unfunded pension funds, use debt financing at extremely high interest rates where it's senior debt secured by the assets of the corporation, and then take the company chapter 7 a few years later. They're getting 10%+ interest on their money and get it all back including accrued interest at liquidation. The taxpayer is stuck with the pension liability. In my opinion, the law needs to be rewritten to put pension liability ahead of these guys. It's not fair to the rest of us.



Still want to blame the Union?

#68 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

Fucking Facts How Do they Work? :lol:

#69 Joker

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who knows what's going on at Hostess. I guess it's pretty serious.

#70 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

I don't get how someone can call this a food victory. Whatever happened people lost their jobs. People need to stop blaming food and what's in it and be personally responsible for what they choose to consume.

#71 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

And on that not I am off to the store for some bacon.

#72 Joker

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

I don't get how someone can call this a food victory. Whatever happened people lost their jobs. People need to stop blaming food and what's in it and be personally responsible for what they choose to consume.

If it was bad for us the government would surely stop us from eating it (or at least force us to purchase smaller portions)

#73 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

I just realized that this year will mark the end of a long standing Thanksgiving tradition in my family. After Thursday, my grandma's bread stuffing recipe will be no more. Its always been made with Wonder Bread. Thankfully I grabbed 2 loaves yesterday, so I will have the honor of making the final batch.

#74 nikkiblue

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

I buy twinkies on a regular basis. I like them. And I'm pretty bummed over this. I'll miss those apple pie thingy's too. :(

*and thats all I have to say on the matter* lol.

#75 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

I don't get how someone can call this a food victory. Whatever happened people lost their jobs. People need to stop blaming food and what's in it and be personally responsible for what they choose to consume.


You can say China instead of "someone" since you are addressing my post. Note that I did start with "job loss bad" recognizing the reality that people are now out of work. This is especially sad because heating bills and holidays are coming.

I don't deny people should educate themselves regarding what they are eating, drinking, injecting, etc... (one of the reasons I support GMO labeling and pesticide labeling as well). But industry always seems to get a pass in these debates (same with makers of violent video games, producers of misogynistic rap, etc...). So corporations flood us with garbage, and yet bear no responsibility for it. I, personally, would like to hold corps to a higher standard in addition to acknowledging that consumers bear responsibility.

And, I do take some small joy in knowing a company that produces, markets, and sells total crap (crap should not even be considered "food") is no longer producing these food like substances. I'd feel the same if the tobacco industry, McDonalds, or Coca Cola went down as well :)

#76 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

I buy twinkies on a regular basis. I like them. And I'm pretty bummed over this. I'll miss those apple pie thingy's too. :(

*and thats all I have to say on the matter* lol.


my mom's husband loves those little pie things!

I'll send you some brussel sprouts, Nik :lol:

#77 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

Yeah. but lets worry about fucking frosting


and why are you still in this thread, don't you have to go picket drone strikes or something?

#78 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

zomg, just looked up what's in a twinkie.



Via http://www.divinecar...d#ixzz2CaxKXyqr



The Twinkie, which was created during the Depression, contains thirty-nine ingredients. One of those ingredients is a preservative, sorbic acid. Sorbic acid is an ingredient I see on many packages, and I have never thought twice about it. But author Steve Ettlinger did. He found that sorbic acid is actually derived from natural gas.


If that isn’t shocking enough, he goes on to talk about other ingredients like cellulose gum, Polysorbate 60, and calcium sulfate. Apparently, these ingredients are also used in sheet rock, shampoo, and rocket fuel. No wonder Twinkies make kids run around like crazy and have even been used as a defense for murder!


Mr Ettlinger also found that the vitamins, artificial colors, and flavorings in Twinkies come from petroleum.
I started to wonder how this tasty treat made from gas and rocks can be so light and airy. In comes Mr. Ettlinger again. Apparently, it’s limestone that makes Twinkies light. And that tasty cream center—it’s got to be cream right? No. It’s made of shortening; there is absolutely no cream in the cream.


I have to say I was curious to know what Hostess, the makers of the Twinkie, thought about Mr. Ettlinger’s claims. Well, here’s the quote that ran in my newscast:


Deconstructing the Twinkie is like trying to deconstruct the universe. We think the millions of people … would agree that Twinkies just taste great.—David Leavitt, Vice President Snack Marketing at Hostess.


The news story was inspired by Steve Ettlinger’s new book, Twinkie Deconstructed. Ettlinger uses the Twinkie to demonstrate where our processed food ingredients come from. Since the Twinkie is the product leader—yes, it’s a product and apparently, barely a food—it served as the perfect tool to show consumers what goes into our food.



#79 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

Fine Fuck China Cat and her food nazism. Happy now :heart:(Creepy) :lol:

#80 nikkiblue

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

LMAO!!! Rocket fuel... Awesome.

"Deconstructing the Twinkie is like trying to deconstruct the universe. We think the millions of people … would agree that Twinkies just taste great.—David Leavitt, Vice President Snack Marketing at Hostess.'

my mom's husband loves those little pie things!

I'll send you some brussel sprouts, Nik :lol:


OMG, I'm brussell sprouted out this week! picked up 2 stalks last weekend at the farm stand, which produced waaaay more brussell sprouts then I realized!!! I was excited because they were only $1.25 a stalk....cooked up 2 batches, and still have enough for another one...although they may be spoiled by now... lol.

#81 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

Fine Fuck China Cat and her food nazism. Happy now :heart:(Creepy) :lol:


I'mma comin over to raid your fridge and confiscate your bacon. :soapbox:

#82 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:18 PM

I'mma comin over to raid your fridge and confiscate your bacon. :soapbox:


Grandma will stop you. She will throw her hearing aids at you and the squeaking sound the emit will make you crumble. :pimp:

#83 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:19 PM

LMAO!!! Rocket fuel... Awesome.

"Deconstructing the Twinkie is like trying to deconstruct the universe. We think the millions of people … would agree that Twinkies just taste great.—David Leavitt, Vice President Snack Marketing at Hostess.'



OMG, I'm brussell sprouted out this week! picked up 2 stalks last weekend at the farm stand, which produced waaaay more brussell sprouts then I realized!!! I was excited because they were only $1.25 a stalk....cooked up 2 batches, and still have enough for another one...although they may be spoiled by now... lol.


Mailing you some acorn squash instead :cheesy:

#84 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Grandma will stop you. She will throw her hearing aids at you and the squeaking sound the emit will make you crumble. :gregoir:


I'll take grandma down.

#85 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

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#86 gregoir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

OOOOh China Grandma Bacon Grease Wrestling. I got a 10 spot on Grandma.

#87 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

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#88 nikkiblue

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

Grandma will stop you. She will throw her hearing aids at you and the squeaking sound the emit will make you crumble. :gregoir:


LOLOL!!! I hate that sound!!!

Kris, I would love to experiment with Acorn squash.. I really don't think I've ever had it.... Some Squash are a pain in the ass to make, but worth it. (butternut, spaghetti) I'm curious to try acorn.

I just remembered last year we made a butternut squash and sweet potato soup.. Damn was that good...

#89 china cat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

LOLOL!!! I hate that sound!!!

Kris, I would love to experiment with Acorn squash.. I really don't think I've ever had it.... Some Squash are a pain in the ass to make, but worth it. (butternut, spaghetti) I'm curious to try acorn.

I just remembered last year we made a butternut squash and sweet potato soup.. Damn was that good...


ooh, just slice it, dig out seeds, put some maple syrup and cinnamon in it and roast it. smells so good in the oven too. yum!

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or with apples!!

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#90 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

All I'm saying is $20/hr to $18 and change/hr isn't the end of the world...especially in the regions where hostess resides...still has to beat no job.



#91 nikkiblue

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

they are soo cute too!!! I like the apple idea... Hmmm.

#92 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

I hope China doesn't use antifreeze as a sweetner when they start making twinkees...those BASTARDS!!! :joker:

#93 Java Time

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

Mmmmm....Suzy-Quong's :drool:

#94 hoagie

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

All I'm saying is $20/hr to $18 and change/hr isn't the end of the world...especially in the regions where hostess resides...still has to beat no job.

Try more like $11.50 an hour after 5years...starts around $9.50



#95 PieDoh

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:32 PM

Can't we all just get a long ........... line of people waiting to apply for unemployment insurance and quicken the impending socialist collapse of the entire American way of life? huh? can't we? huh?

#96 Nuthatch

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

ya know....perhaps it has been the workers fault for years for this decline did ya ever think of that? who is making theses products?!? management? unioon workers can't submit new ideas to management or is it not in their job description?

maybe the union's position is money and not caring that their peeps are pushing out a shit product...you want more money to keep pushing out crap?!?

you act just like the big wigs that you are there to make sure shit like this doesn't happen....shameful greedy bastards :undecided:

those workers should have been happy enough that they still had a job at any pay cut!!!


Or, maybe this company was "Bained" and the assets and profits were kremed from the top with the workers taking previous a pay cut to bail it out and not wanting to do it again. Did ya ever think of that?

#97 Tabbooma

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

Twinkies helped build America along with union labor. ;)

#98 Jwheelz

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:49 PM

I'm thinking it was mostly the union labor... although there was another kind of labor regrettably employed to help build America...


mmmm partially hydrogenated vegetable oils :drool:

#99 Joker

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:54 PM

Or, maybe this company was "Bained" and the assets and profits were kremed from the top with the workers taking previous a pay cut to bail it out and not wanting to do it again. Did ya ever think of that?

That's what the AFL-CIO president, among others, is claiming.


Union: 'Bain-style' killing of Twinkie

The Bain attack is back.

This time it’s being used against Hostess Brands, the Twinkies and Wonder Bread maker that announced Friday it was closing. AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka drew the comparison in a public statement Friday.

“What’s happening with Hostess Brands is a microcosm of what’s wrong with America, as Bain-style Wall Street vultures make themselves rich by making America poor,” Trumka said in a public statement. “Crony capitalism and consistently poor management drove Hostess into the ground, but its workers are paying the price.”
(Also on POLITICO: Twinkie-maker Hostess to close)

Earlier Friday, Hostess Brands announced that it would be closing, which the company said was precipitated by a workers’ strike.

Trumka’s comparing Hostess to Bain comes after an election in which former GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney was criticized for co-founding Bain Capital.

The union leader took the workers’ the side, saying Hostess’ leaders and policies were “wrecking America.”

Read more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz2Ccb6odEe

#100 Joker

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

Has anyone found a link to what they were paying their bakers?