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NYC Marathon Cancelled


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#51 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

Yes.

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#52 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

Make us a Power Point on it.


Really, dude? Honestly, it seems like now you're just acting like an ass for the sake of acting like an ass. Its all good but I'm not gonna keep the back & forth going.

Besides, you've made your point, I've made mine. We don't agree. End of story. Its cool. I'm tired. Hope you have a good evening.

#53 Wende

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:35 AM

"I'll be rigggghhhht heeeeere" :lol:

#54 Java Time

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

this is all because of some rich folks with clout happened to lose their real estate...again, if it were poor neighborhoods lost the Marathon would still be running...this has nothing to do with road closings, allotment of emergency personnel, generators that can power 400 apt units, etc, this is about the rich bullying politics.

must be fact cuz I wrote it down

:funny1:

#55 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

Tomorrow promises new ways to arm chair. This one is all over.

#56 BHB

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:03 AM

Just heard, its official. Someone finally came to their senses.


exactly. there is no possible way the marathon could not have taken away from 'essential personnel'.

not to sound like a bitch but i drove from brooklyn all the way through queens to the catskills, back to westchester, down through nassau and over to brooklyn again for a gas run this morning.

if you have any doubt that millions of people are still fucked down here, take that drive tomorrow morning and tell me im wrong. we don't need races, people need help. badly.

#57 PeaceFrog

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:27 AM

the marathon requires 2 industrial size generators that could power 400 homes. The games don't. That's enough difference for me.

#58 In A Silent Way

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

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#59 deadheadskier

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:07 AM

ryan, neither of those games involve the further displacement of others.




I get that. The reason I brought it up is because people have been primarily against the marathon happening for two reasons.

A. This disruption / displacement of city residents that the event would cause during trying times

and

B. The marathon would take away personnel and material resources away from the recovery effort when all hands and supplies on deck are needed to assist those suffering.


In this thread and other discussions concerning the marathon on this board, people have mentioned B a lot. I'm just pointing out two large events that would result in B that people are apparently fine with. I'm sure a Giant's game requires hundreds of police, fire and medical personnel attention as well as significant amounts of equipment.

As mentioned prior, I'm absolutely in favor of the marathon being cancelled; it's the right decision. It's the right decision because of A, not B. I do not believe that the freeing up of personnel and equipment resultant from the Marathon's cancellation will have a major impact on speeding up recovery and rebuilding efforts. Not shutting down areas of town as you mention certainly will help.

As an example, Peacefrog mentioned that the two generators required for the marathon could power up to 400 homes. I'd be shocked to learn that those generators end up being re-purposed for such a cause. Not going to happen, so his point that the Giant's game doesn't require the generators is largely irrelevant.

#60 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

yes. my point is a different one, which ends with the same logical result of cancelling the race.

to fine tune the points made by others, i don't think many ems or fire personnel will be (or were) re-assigned from disaster assistance for either of those sporting events.

#61 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

the two generators required for the marathon could power up to 400 homes. I'd be shocked to learn that those generators end up being re-purposed for such a cause. Not going to happen
Of course it is not going to happen. You dont just roll up an 800 KWH generator into a flood zone where power is down in potentially several areas and hook it up to homes without taking away from the main mission of restoring power rightful. It's a waste of time. It's logistical juggernaut and it's not even necessarily possible.

When I saw that on the front page of the NY daily Rag Mag, I actually LOL.

#62 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:21 PM

It wasn't canceled because of resource diversion. The city already made it clear that wasn't the case. It was canceled because of the C) Armchair QB backs from all walks of life grabbing at emotional straws about how we shouldn't be running a race when so many people are suffering. Even if the race goes to benefit people that are, and those who have been long before this tragedy. Using resources diversion and appeal to emotion as the basis for cancellation.

Which I must say, is a real kick in the face to others who have power and can make it to work or are required to work as if others aren't suffering. Or those who have water while others dont, etc...How dare us get on with things with so many displaced or in need? How dare I have a coffee and a sit at the tron while others are peeling through wreckage of what used to be their homes?

It's a public shaming of the "how could you?" variety. Nothing more, nothing less.

#63 PeaceFrog

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

one of the generators is already at a hospital that needs it. It hasn't been hooked up yet, though. http://www.nypost.co...5z4Rnqj0qzDjmvK

#64 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:48 PM

it's a waste of time to provide power to critical places that may not see "restoring power rightful" for another week?

no. it's not. we disagree about that.

unless you met with the mayor or his advisors, you know as much about the issues they considered as me...which is nada.

#65 Java Time

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:05 PM

well it's Sunday and those freed up resources from the canceled marathon have not restored my power, the houses a few blocks away are still burnt to the ground, have severe flood damage, there are still people holed up in their damaged homes...ya know the areas where folks were told to evacuate and didn't putting themselves and rescue personnel in harm's way...yeah...I'm seeing the results work wonders :rolleyes:

#66 Jambear

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

Did you really think this would be fixed overnight?

Why dont you take a trip down to new orleans and walk thru the 9th ward......some folks down there are still living in homes that should have been condemed.

If not running the marathon gave some 1st responders time to go home, shower, see their loved ones and sleep in their own beds.
This it is more important to me than some race or any other event.

I am schedule to come to nyc next week for the phil show and if this is cancelled you wont see me whining.
I will understand and hope the reason why is for the greater good.
I am actually surprised this has not been cancelled already.

If it is not cancelled i will be excited to be in the area and will donate some money to a charity to help lend support.

Oh, and before anyone starts bitching about hotels and car rules i am taking a bus in and out of the city all in 24 hours so no people will be displaced.

That is if the bus lines are still running in and out.

If i were you i would go to the closest fire dept station and deliver them some muffins or a gift certificate for working so hard thru a hurricane to stop the fire that didnt get to your home or at least maybe see what you can do to help out a neighbor who cant post on the internet.

#67 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

it's a waste of time to provide power to critical places that may not see "restoring power rightful" for another week?

no. it's not. we disagree about that.

unless you met with the mayor or his advisors, you know as much about the issues they considered as me...which is nada.


The problem isn't just from the grid, it can also be from the infrastructure. So powering more than one "critical places" takes assessment for a given infrastructure. Powering several would require that assessment, followed by a way to tie into said infrastructure's main lines. It can be done. And they are already powering gas stations with military and ER generators. Gas of course, is currently a very scarce resource.

My point is the idea these units are going to power large sectors of housing for long periods of time is a logistical juggernaut.

#68 Jack Straw

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:09 PM

Behind the scenes, there were also concerns about what the world would see: images of runners so close to neighborhoods that had been battered by the storm, at a time when gasoline remained in short supply and mass transit was still not fully functioning.

Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly and Deputy Mayors Howard Wolfson and Patricia E. Harris all argued for calling off the event.

The mayor, virtually alone in saying the race should go on, finally relented and canceled it after a conversation with Mary Wittenberg, the marathon director, late Friday. “This isn’t the year or the time to run it,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.c...h_20121103&_r=0

#69 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:12 PM

The problem isn't just from the grid, it can also be from the infrastructure. So powering more than one "critical places" takes assessment for a given infrastructure. Powering several would require that assessment, followed by a way to tie into said infrastructure's main lines. It can be done. And they are already powering gas stations with military and ER generators. Gas of course, is currently a very scarce resource.

My point is the idea these units are going to power large sectors of housing for long periods of time is a logistical juggernaut.


please define "long period" of time. according to pf, they are already re-tasked for disaster relief efforts.

#70 elder

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:24 PM

Ok, I'm going to try and reply here without losing my cool...deep breathes...ok

TASB, Java, I am usually lock stock and barrel with you guys. I too am an alternative thinker, and admire your thought process...but with all due respect you guys are way off on this.

Forget the resources, although I think it's funny you quoting Bloomberg saying none would be taken away from recovery. Since when do u believe what that prick has to say?

Forget about logistics and hotel rooms and everything else.

While the race was canceled because of public outcry, it should have been canceled out of respect. Respect to the million plus who's lives have changed, who's lives have been turned upside down. Your arguments are based purely on money. And for once this isn't about money. This is about respect and human lives.

Not sure how anyone right now can watch the news, see the heartbreak, and then support that fucking race.

I'm asking you guys to rethink your stances. I want to be able to have future conversations with you and to continue to respect your opinions and ideas.

Yes, this decision was based on emotions and the bottom line takes a hit. So fucking what? There is a time for everything. Now is a time for emotions and compassion.

With all due respect.



#71 Wende

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

It's almost like they're joking, but they're not. :( Sad.

#72 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

Ok, I'm going to try and reply here without losing my cool...deep breathes...ok

TASB, Java, I am usually lock stock and barrel with you guys. I too am an alternative thinker, and admire your thought process...but with all due respect you guys are way off on this.

Forget the resources, although I think it's funny you quoting Bloomberg saying none would be taken away from recovery. Since when do u believe what that prick has to say?

Forget about logistics and hotel rooms and everything else.

While the race was canceled because of public outcry, it should have been canceled out of respect. Respect to the million plus who's lives have changed, who's lives have been turned upside down. Your arguments are based purely on money. And for once this isn't about money. This is about respect and human lives.

Not sure how anyone right now can watch the news, see the heartbreak, and then support that fucking race.

I'm asking you guys to rethink your stances. I want to be able to have future conversations with you and to continue to respect your opinions and ideas.

Yes, this decision was based on emotions and the bottom line takes a hit. So fucking what? There is a time for everything. Now is a time for emotions and compassion.

With all due respect.


well said, tom. :thup:

just to be clear, my point about not displacing from hotels, those who have no home remaining, is based on compassion and emotion. certainly not the bottom line.

#73 seany

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

What elder said :thumbsup:

#74 Jambear

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

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#75 jg

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

It appears as though many people are still taking part in their version of the NYC Marathon (perhaps to raise money for their promised charities).

While others are volunteering their time to help in recovery efforts.

It could be said both forms of action are better than bickering over the internet....

#76 Java Time

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

Ok, I'm going to try and reply here without losing my cool...deep breathes...ok

TASB, Java, I am usually lock stock and barrel with you guys. I too am an alternative thinker, and admire your thought process...but with all due respect you guys are way off on this.

Forget the resources, although I think it's funny you quoting Bloomberg saying none would be taken away from recovery. Since when do u believe what that prick has to say?

Forget about logistics and hotel rooms and everything else.

While the race was canceled because of public outcry, it should have been canceled out of respect. Respect to the million plus who's lives have changed, who's lives have been turned upside down. Your arguments are based purely on money. And for once this isn't about money. This is about respect and human lives.

Not sure how anyone right now can watch the news, see the heartbreak, and then support that fucking race.

I'm asking you guys to rethink your stances. I want to be able to have future conversations with you and to continue to respect your opinions and ideas.

Yes, this decision was based on emotions and the bottom line takes a hit. So fucking what? There is a time for everything. Now is a time for emotions and compassion.

With all due respect.


if people stated their opinions such as you their prolly wouldn't be the back n forth we have. :heart:

now as far as people first....instead of outrage over the race.
.why not be up in arms at the gov't not foregoe any tax issues between states to get fuel here instead of waiting for ports in ny/nj to open up to get fuel here!!! what...no other states in the US had fuel to give now for fuel later (or cash now)????

this is a big issue here in the affected areas....a race or no race to be honest has no effect on us non city folk getting our lives back to normal...and it will not have a significant differenc in nyc imho.

#77 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

why do you believe it's taxation issues causing a shortage of gasoline in the devastated areas?

#78 elder

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:26 PM

Oh don't you worry my friend, I have plenty of outrage left for the way the govt dropped the ball all over the place on preparing for this. Plenty.

I didn't even know we had all these restrictions on getting gas until they said they were lifting them, after the fact. wtf! In other words with proper planning we may not have had these gas issues...grrrr

#79 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Ok, I'm going to try and reply here without losing my cool...deep breathes...ok

TASB, Java, I am usually lock stock and barrel with you guys. I too am an alternative thinker, and admire your thought process...but with all due respect you guys are way off on this.

Forget the resources, although I think it's funny you quoting Bloomberg saying none would be taken away from recovery. Since when do u believe what that prick has to say?

Forget about logistics and hotel rooms and everything else.

While the race was canceled because of public outcry, it should have been canceled out of respect. Respect to the million plus who's lives have changed, who's lives have been turned upside down. Your arguments are based purely on money. And for once this isn't about money. This is about respect and human lives.

Not sure how anyone right now can watch the news, see the heartbreak, and then support that fucking race.

I'm asking you guys to rethink your stances. I want to be able to have future conversations with you and to continue to respect your opinions and ideas.

Yes, this decision was based on emotions and the bottom line takes a hit. So fucking what? There is a time for everything. Now is a time for emotions and compassion.

With all due respect.


To be clear here, this isn't about the race. It's about the ridiculous notion on why people wanted it cancelled. In my mind this is how it sounds:

"How can we possibly hold a charity event at a time when so many need charity?"
Then that is fluffed with appeals to "resource use". It makes no sense to me. The city, the runners Assoc...they were on to make this happen and for a change I agree with Bloomberg. It's good for the strength of the city, both in spirit and economically. So far, and it pains me to say it, the city of NY has done a fantastic job coordinating relief and getting things back up in a fashion as promised. I have no reason to not believe that their efforts aren't genuine on getting the recovery efforts in full motion. But recovery isn't going to happen over night, and that effort, regardless of whether or not we want it to be that way, has a price tag on it. Raising money, pulling people together and getting people out to support local marathon route businesses is absolutely excellent at a time like this.

Really, though. If your opinion of me changes because I can't wrap my head around the idea of "we cant have a charity event with so many in need of charity." changes your opinion of my contributions here, then so be it.

#80 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

i didn't realize there was gov't red tape involved in the lack of availability of gas. did they wait too long to lift regulations? are closed stations operational but for lack of fuel? should the gov't have foreseen a lack of gasoline?

#81 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

To be clear here, this isn't about the race. It's about the ridiculous notion on why people wanted it cancelled. In my mind this is how it sounds:

"How can we possibly hold a charity event at a time when so many need charity?"
Then that is fluffed with appeals to "resource use". It makes no sense to me. The city, the runners Assoc...they were on to make this happen and for a change I agree with Bloomberg. It's good for the strength of the city, both in spirit and economically. So far, and it pains me to say it, the city of NY has done a fantastic job coordinating relief and getting things back up in a fashion as promised. I have no reason to not believe that their efforts aren't genuine on getting the recovery efforts in full motion. But recovery isn't going to happen over night, and that effort, regardless of whether or not we want it to be that way, has a price tag on it. Raising money, pulling people together and getting people out to support local marathon route businesses is absolutely excellent at a time like this.

Really, though. If your opinion of me changes because I can't wrap my head around the idea of "we cant have a charity event with so many in need of charity." changes your opinion of my contributions here, then so be it.


what's preventing the same resources/assests from donating that money for disaster relief?

#82 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

just to be clear, my questions reflect genuine curiosity; they are not meant to appear socratic nor rhetorical.

#83 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

what's preventing the same resources/assests from donating that money for disaster relief?

Nothing. They may do will. I'm sure many are. I know they are. But compartmentalizing efforts doesn't necessarily mean that we're doing everything possible. There are all types of folks affected that could have seriously used the revenue, the raise in spirits and the event was already planned as scheduled.
Businesses that anticipated more labor help, more goods, the list is endless. We have to carry on, folks. That's the idea and when we come together...think of what that race stands for, how many charities are involved....I feel we fell short to see the bigger picture here and instead played an insensitive card when that isn't even true. This whole foundation of the marathon is rooted in charitable giving.

This "we can't have a charity event with so many in need of charity" thought will not extinguish for me. That's how I see it and it makes no sense.

#84 Java Time

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

why do you believe it's taxation issues causing a shortage of gasoline in the devastated areas?


that has been the reason given to many of the gas station owners who had looked into seeking fuel from other states...something to do with state taxes and charges as you cross state lines and other red tape?

totally based on the words from 3 different gas station owners

but irregardless, why did the gov't look into fuel from states not affected instead of waiting for the ports to open?

remember this is a people first thread so money/cost can't be a factor for the majority of you :wink: :funny1:

#85 insolent cur

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:17 PM

gov't look into fuel from other states? are the refineries gov't run? did i miss something?

#86 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:26 PM

"This giant's game, is a much needed distraction right now."

#87 Spidergawd

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:10 PM

Ok, I'm going to try and reply here without losing my cool...deep breathes...ok

TASB, Java, I am usually lock stock and barrel with you guys. I too am an alternative thinker, and admire your thought process...but with all due respect you guys are way off on this.

Forget the resources, although I think it's funny you quoting Bloomberg saying none would be taken away from recovery. Since when do u believe what that prick has to say?

Forget about logistics and hotel rooms and everything else.

While the race was canceled because of public outcry, it should have been canceled out of respect. Respect to the million plus who's lives have changed, who's lives have been turned upside down. Your arguments are based purely on money. And for once this isn't about money. This is about respect and human lives.

Not sure how anyone right now can watch the news, see the heartbreak, and then support that fucking race.

I'm asking you guys to rethink your stances. I want to be able to have future conversations with you and to continue to respect your opinions and ideas.

Yes, this decision was based on emotions and the bottom line takes a hit. So fucking what? There is a time for everything. Now is a time for emotions and compassion.

With all due respect.


:clapping:

Tom, I could not have expressed that even half as well as you did. Partly because of, you know, emotions. Because I have empathy and am not Mr. Spock. Well said indeed, friend.

#88 Java Time

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

It's almost like they're joking, but they're not. :( Sad.


:coffee:

#89 Java Time

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

gov't look into fuel from other states? are the refineries gov't run? did i miss something?



yes...you did...federal emergency I'm not going explain....look it up

#90 insolent cur

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

yes...you did...federal emergency I'm not going explain....look it up


i'm all for nationalizing the refineries, but i think i'm in the minority.

#91 PeaceFrog

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:31 AM

I'm in favor of nationalizing the refineries. It's OUR oil to begin with. Why should we let them take it? So they can sell it back to us?

#92 TEO

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:51 PM

Interesting to me how football is still acceptable.

#93 Karen

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

Interesting to me how football is still acceptable.


One reason is that they are not running through the streets of a devastated area. Another is that city resources are not required to clean up the stadium to get it game ready.
Those are just a couple of ways I see it as different. I am in for or against football going on BTW.

I am however, VERY interested to see how the election 'celebrations' will be. If anything they should be toned down as much as possible. Just my opinion.

#94 TEO

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

Ah, so the security and resources required for arena sporting events are exempted?

#95 Feck

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:01 PM

could be the amont of public resources is much lower than what would have been used for the race.


They were going to redirect a lot of NYC resources for the race, the mayor's quote was actually about focus and not use.

while some may have been out running, i know over 1000 took the boat over and ran 15 miles to a distribution center here and chipped in helping clear debris and property from homes, gave out water, food, pre paid cell phones etc.

#96 Feck

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

Ah, so the security and resources required for arena sporting events are exempted?


mostly private security, and for football they are in NJ

#97 Karen

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

Ah, so the security and resources required for arena sporting events are exempted?


Exempted from what? My opinion of why the marathon should have been cancelled is because of the NYC resources such as the NYPD, FDNY, Sanitation, etc would be diverted to the marathon. I assumed football stadiums have their own private security.

This is my opinion of how I see a football game as different. Different from the marathon.

#98 TEO

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

mostly private security, and for football they are in NJ


So nice that they are not needed for other security deployment. :smile:

#99 Karen

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

So nice that they are needed for other security deployment. :smile:


So nice that who is needed? what does this mean?

#100 Joker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:07 PM

I'd be willing to bet there were resources used for the football game that could have been put towards relief efforts.

While the game probably used less of those resources it still would have taken some away.

IMO if the reason the race was canceled was taking relief resources away, then the game should have been canceled for the same reason.