Things I want to know:
1. WHY does he feel that we should intervene?
2. When will he seek congressional approval?
3. Does have have a PLAN and more importantly AN EXIT STRATEGY
4. WHY is he spending all this money when we have enough domestic problems to deal with? Couldn't we use the $300M a day to feed our homeless, pay off our debt, fix medicare and social security, bail out THE WORKING CLASS, universal healthcare, etc.
P.S. Why start this at 7:30pm EST when the west coast is still working? Does he feel that the west coast liberals will ignore what he's doing/saying?
Obama to speak at 7:30pm EST
Started by
robberry
, Mar 28 2011 11:26 PM
76 replies to this topic
#6
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:25 AM
:waiting for a certain few to spew some right wing political drivel turning this into a 10 page "know it all...im only here to argue, and i have more links than you" pissing contest:
Nah, I wont bother with it here any more.
Obey, consume, stay asleep......
#7
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- VibeTribe
- 10,274 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:38 PM
As opposed to the same type of left wing political drivel?:waiting for a certain few to spew some right wing political drivel turning this into a 10 page "know it all...im only here to argue, and i have more links than you" pissing contest:
Just be happy we're not inundated with the same amount of bullshit threads we had to deal with when Bush was in office...yet
#8
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:13 PM
For the record, my opinion on the entire situation isn't one that is republican. I do not play party politics. The truth is what matters. What is apparent is that people dont want the truth. They want their cozy consumer lifestyle.
I for one, am not happy about paying a rogue govt. to drop bombs on other nations in order to drive an elitist agenda. Killing people with my tax dollars isnt acceptable to me. You're free to dip your hands in blood and smile though.
And with that, I'm out of all of it. I'll take my truth searches elsewhere.
I for one, am not happy about paying a rogue govt. to drop bombs on other nations in order to drive an elitist agenda. Killing people with my tax dollars isnt acceptable to me. You're free to dip your hands in blood and smile though.
And with that, I'm out of all of it. I'll take my truth searches elsewhere.
#9
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- VibeTribe
- 4,913 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:21 PM
:waiting for a certain few to spew some right wing political drivel turning this into a 10 page "know it all...im only here to argue, and i have more links than you" pissing contest:
i love how you're automatically a right-winger when you disagree with obama...didn't fox news use that tactic for 8 years? whenever you spoke out against bush you were anti-american...now? kinda the same ol shit with obama's admin...divide and conquer
people who get bombed aren't any less human when a democrat is in office
#13
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- VibeTribe
- 7,581 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:05 PM
I'm personally not thrilled with a lot of what Obama has done or the pace/direction of "change". But I have to believe the past 2 years would have been far more aggravating under McCain / Palin. Radical reformers like Ron Paul don't even have a chance in our current political climate - keep dreaming if that is the change you are looking for. And even if you like his ideas, I think it is a pipe dream that he would actually be able to enact much of his agenda.
#15
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- VibeTribe
- 4,913 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:16 PM
I'm personally not thrilled with a lot of what Obama has done or the pace/direction of "change". But I have to believe the past 2 years would have been far more aggravating under McCain / Palin. Radical reformers like Ron Paul don't even have a chance in our current political climate - keep dreaming if that is the change you are looking for. And even if you like his ideas, I think it is a pipe dream that he would actually be able to enact much of his agenda.
obama's not even trying to be the president he campaigned to be as senator...anything from a compromise to a straight up broken promise is pretty much what you can rely on from this guy...and if his hands really are as tied as people are claiming, why isn't he saying so? what's his excuse for renewing the patriot act or lying about closing guantanamo? what's his excuse for bailing out wall st? keeping the bush tax cuts? we're still in iraq and afghanistan to enough of a capacity that people are still dying there...the economy isn't showing any real signs of recovery...he never put on those comfy shoes he bragged about while unions are getting crushed left and right
the man is just not the rebel he was claiming to be while he was running, and everyone just sitting back and accepting it and STILL saying give the guy time...if this is the direction we're heading then we might as well have had another 4 years of bush
#16
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- VibeTribe
- 12,928 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:17 PM
I'm personally not thrilled with a lot of what Obama has done or the pace/direction of "change". But I have to believe the past 2 years would have been far more aggravating under McCain / Palin.
My only difference with you there is that I'm terribly disappointed with the "pace/direction." I didn't figure I would be voting for a major party candidate in a presidential election ever again, but I voted for Obama because the idea of a McCain/Palin Administration was so incredibly appalling.
I agree that we're probably still better off than we would have been. But "better off" and "good" or even "ok," can be two very, very different things.
Sooner or later, I believe radical reform of some sort will come. Thing is, the longer we put off change, the more painful that reform will be.
JMO, yada yada...
#18
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:46 PM
the anti-government (anarchists) are the new corporatists (fascists) enablers
That's total bullshit and you know it. Secondly, being aware that this two party system is broken and not wanting to particpate in a rogue government isn't anti-government. It's anti-rogue government.
But keep believing the democrats and the republicans arent on the same team.
The two party people are the ones forwarding the corp. elitist fascist agenda.
#20
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- VibeTribe
- 11,749 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:59 PM
I'm thrilled with some, not thrilled with other parts, and vehementally against some other parts.I'm personally not thrilled with a lot of what Obama has done or the pace/direction of "change". But I have to believe the past 2 years would have been far more aggravating under McCain / Palin. Radical reformers like Ron Paul don't even have a chance in our current political climate - keep dreaming if that is the change you are looking for. And even if you like his ideas, I think it is a pipe dream that he would actually be able to enact much of his agenda.
It's hard to know what Ron Paul would be able to do if he would be elected (which I agree he can't be). The anarchist/fascist alliance has done quite a bit.
he never claimed to be a rebel. he claimed to be a centrist. He is.the man is just not the rebel he was claiming to be while he was running,
#21
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- VibeTribe
- 10,274 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:05 PM
The two party people are the ones forwarding the corp. elitist fascist agenda.
Ain't that the truth.
Let's just hope more people smarten up and realize we're not going to get any real change as long as the Dems/Reps are allowed to continue leading us down the path they've got us on.
Vote a third party candidate and let them know that we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it
#22
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- VibeTribe
- 1,503 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:11 PM
For the record, my opinion on the entire situation isn't one that is republican. I do not play party politics. The truth is what matters. What is apparent is that people dont want the truth. They want their cozy consumer lifestyle.
I for one, am not happy about paying a rogue govt. to drop bombs on other nations in order to drive an elitist agenda. Killing people with my tax dollars isnt acceptable to me. You're free to dip your hands in blood and smile though.
The truth is that the United States led an international effort that prevented the murder of thousands of civilians in Libya.
#24
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- VibeTribe
- 10,274 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:18 PM
The truth is that the United States led an international effort that prevented the murder of thousands of civilians in Libya.
Meanwhile we've not only turned a blind eye to the murder of thousands of civilians in other countries, we've also given some of those countries huge amounts of money.
#27
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:22 PM
Now I'm a fool? Really?
That's very impressive of you. Care to prove me wrong?
There is a thread FULL of information here on this as it unfolded. The only fools around here are the ones who blindly believe the bullshit they are told without doing any independent research.
Go ahead, find the thread and prove me wrong. Otherwise, I'll be waiting for an apology on attacking my character.
That's very impressive of you. Care to prove me wrong?
There is a thread FULL of information here on this as it unfolded. The only fools around here are the ones who blindly believe the bullshit they are told without doing any independent research.
Go ahead, find the thread and prove me wrong. Otherwise, I'll be waiting for an apology on attacking my character.
#29
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- VibeTribe
- 11,749 posts
#31
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:30 PM
Yes. Did you investigate this situation at all outside of US media? I doubt it. But you can find links to important information on Libya in that thread. The rebel leader has been quoted in an Italian paper disclosing ties to Al-Qaeda.
Did your media sources tell you that?
Did your media sources tell you that?
#33
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- VibeTribe
- 4,913 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:45 PM
ok, so how can anyone justify something like this and sit there and say that obama is not part of the corporatist agenda?
Obama administration restricts findings on Gulf’s dead dolphins
By Lynn Herrmann.
+
Biloxi - The Obama administration has issued a gag order on data over the recent spike of dead dolphins, including many stillborn infants, washing up on Mississippi and Alabama shorelines, and scientists say the restriction undermines the scientific process.
An abnormal dolphin mortality this year along the Gulf coast has become part of a federal criminal investigation over last year’s BP oil spill disaster and as a result, has led the US government to clamp down on biologists’ findings, with orders to keep the results confidential.
The dolphin die-off, labeled an “unusual mortality event (UME),” resulted in wildlife biologists being contracted by the National Marine Fisheries Service to record the recent spike in dolphin deaths by collecting tissue samples and specimens for the agency, but late last month were privately ordered to keep their results under wraps.
Reuters has obtained a copy of the agency letter that states, in part: “Because of the seriousness of the legal case, no data or findings may be released, presented or discussed outside the UME investigative team without prior approval.”
One biologist involved with tracking dolphin mortalities for over 20 years and speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Reuters that: “It throws accountability right out the window. We are confused and ... we are angry because they claim they want teamwork, but at the same time they are leaving the marine experts out of the loop completely.”
Some scientists said they have received a personal rebuke from government officials about “speaking out of turn” to the media over attempts at determining the dolphins’ deaths.
Additionally, these scientists say the collected specimens and samples are being turned over to the government for evaluation under a deal that omits independent scientists from the final results of lab tests.
Almost 200 dead bottlenose dolphin bodies have been found since mid-January through this week along shorelines of Gulf coast states, including Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana, Reuters notes. About half of the carcasses are newborns or stillborn infants.
That number is around 14 times the average numbers recorded during the same time frame between 2002 and 2007 and has coincidentally occurred during the first calving season since the BP Deepwater Horizon debacle last year in the Gulf.
Although many of the dolphin specimens recently collected show no outward signs of oil contamination, lab analysis is crucial in helping to determine their deaths.
Some experts believe the recent surge of deaths is the result of dolphins inhaling or ingesting oil during the oil spill, the results of which are just now beginning to show their toll, including a possible upsurge in dolphin miscarriages.
The recent spike in dolphin deaths has compounded the dolphin mortality problem, as scientists were already busy attempting to determine the deaths of nearly 90 dead dolphins, mostly adults, that washed up along the US Gulf coast during the weeks and months after the BP disaster.
Some are questioning the Marine Fisheries Service, part of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and its delay in providing dolphin samples to laboratories.
“It is surprising that it has been almost a full year since the spill, and they still haven't selected labs for this kind of work,” said Ruth Carmichael, of the independent Dauphin Island Sea Lab, located in Alabama, according to Reuters. “I can only hope that this process is a good thing. I just don’t know. This is an unfortunate situation,” she added.
Officials with the NOAA state the confidentiality measures are an integral part of the current investigation over the BP oil spill.
“We are treating the evidence, which are the dolphin samples, like a murder case,” said Dr. Erin Fougeres, a Fisheries Service marine biologist, Reuters notes. “The chain of custody is being closely watched. Every dolphin sample is considered evidence in the BP case now,” she added.
http://www.digitaljo...6#ixzz1HsjsqUUn
Obama administration restricts findings on Gulf’s dead dolphins
By Lynn Herrmann.
+
Biloxi - The Obama administration has issued a gag order on data over the recent spike of dead dolphins, including many stillborn infants, washing up on Mississippi and Alabama shorelines, and scientists say the restriction undermines the scientific process.
An abnormal dolphin mortality this year along the Gulf coast has become part of a federal criminal investigation over last year’s BP oil spill disaster and as a result, has led the US government to clamp down on biologists’ findings, with orders to keep the results confidential.
The dolphin die-off, labeled an “unusual mortality event (UME),” resulted in wildlife biologists being contracted by the National Marine Fisheries Service to record the recent spike in dolphin deaths by collecting tissue samples and specimens for the agency, but late last month were privately ordered to keep their results under wraps.
Reuters has obtained a copy of the agency letter that states, in part: “Because of the seriousness of the legal case, no data or findings may be released, presented or discussed outside the UME investigative team without prior approval.”
One biologist involved with tracking dolphin mortalities for over 20 years and speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Reuters that: “It throws accountability right out the window. We are confused and ... we are angry because they claim they want teamwork, but at the same time they are leaving the marine experts out of the loop completely.”
Some scientists said they have received a personal rebuke from government officials about “speaking out of turn” to the media over attempts at determining the dolphins’ deaths.
Additionally, these scientists say the collected specimens and samples are being turned over to the government for evaluation under a deal that omits independent scientists from the final results of lab tests.
Almost 200 dead bottlenose dolphin bodies have been found since mid-January through this week along shorelines of Gulf coast states, including Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana, Reuters notes. About half of the carcasses are newborns or stillborn infants.
That number is around 14 times the average numbers recorded during the same time frame between 2002 and 2007 and has coincidentally occurred during the first calving season since the BP Deepwater Horizon debacle last year in the Gulf.
Although many of the dolphin specimens recently collected show no outward signs of oil contamination, lab analysis is crucial in helping to determine their deaths.
Some experts believe the recent surge of deaths is the result of dolphins inhaling or ingesting oil during the oil spill, the results of which are just now beginning to show their toll, including a possible upsurge in dolphin miscarriages.
The recent spike in dolphin deaths has compounded the dolphin mortality problem, as scientists were already busy attempting to determine the deaths of nearly 90 dead dolphins, mostly adults, that washed up along the US Gulf coast during the weeks and months after the BP disaster.
Some are questioning the Marine Fisheries Service, part of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and its delay in providing dolphin samples to laboratories.
“It is surprising that it has been almost a full year since the spill, and they still haven't selected labs for this kind of work,” said Ruth Carmichael, of the independent Dauphin Island Sea Lab, located in Alabama, according to Reuters. “I can only hope that this process is a good thing. I just don’t know. This is an unfortunate situation,” she added.
Officials with the NOAA state the confidentiality measures are an integral part of the current investigation over the BP oil spill.
“We are treating the evidence, which are the dolphin samples, like a murder case,” said Dr. Erin Fougeres, a Fisheries Service marine biologist, Reuters notes. “The chain of custody is being closely watched. Every dolphin sample is considered evidence in the BP case now,” she added.
http://www.digitaljo...6#ixzz1HsjsqUUn
#38
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- VibeTribe
- 710 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:59 PM
and by the way, yes judgment calls necessarily do mean it's important who is president, and who is in Congress
Or do you mean the difference between a judgment call and a lie depend on who is president, and who is in Congress?
I'm just trying to understand your angle here because it just baffles me that you are defending this
#40
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- VibeTribe
- 710 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:08 PM
...the violence against civilian protesters in other neighboring nations doesnt count because.....
There is none. Obama says we stopped that by taking out Gaddafi's forces and equipment. This prevented all that other stuff going on...
...even though we are apparently not supporting Gaddafi
#41
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- VibeTribe
- 11,749 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:12 PM
No, I do not mean that.Or do you mean the difference between a judgment call and a lie depend on who is president, and who is in Congress?
I'm just trying to understand your angle here because it just baffles me that you are defending this
The situation in Libya is nothing at all like Iraq or Afghanistan.
And I wouldn't blanket defend every single thing about the US involvement in Libya. But then once the military gets involved I rarely do.
#44
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- VibeTribe
- 11,749 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:21 PM
It's not a matter of whether it counts...the violence against civilian protesters in other neighboring nations doesnt count because.....
In Libya there is almost a perfect storm of conditions. We know who Ghadafi is, he was threatening mass violence, there is strong international agreement on what to do, and we could have an effect on the situation without, for example, introducing ground troops.
If you believe the reports tens of thousands were about to massacred in Benghazi. I certainly don't know if those reports are true, but Ghadafi was talking about no mercy
#46
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:23 PM
It's not a matter of whether it counts.
In Libya there is almost a perfect storm of conditions. We know who Ghadafi is, he was threatening mass violence, there is strong international agreement on what to do, and we could have an effect on the situation without, for example, introducing ground troops.
#47
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- VibeTribe
- 16,798 posts
Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:25 PM
Again, is anyone going to answer me on Al-Qaeda? How is helping the rebel forces, by not helping the rebel forces linked to Al-Qaeda, helping the rebel forces.
The fucking double speak on this whole affair is so fucking obvious.
I give up, folks. Bomb the whole world into submisssion
Top bunk at camp FEMA, brehs.
The fucking double speak on this whole affair is so fucking obvious.
I give up, folks. Bomb the whole world into submisssion
Top bunk at camp FEMA, brehs.
