469 replies to this topic

[china cat]

Not to be a naysayer again, but that response is pretty lame, IMO. The dinar as a standard currency? lol. Oil is certainly a driving factor, but the Libyan oil isn't prime for the U.S. market. It's a different grade - the Italian and French refineries are geared up to process it, we're not.

Next fight on the horizon: Morocco. Do you know that they are the world's leading supplier of phosphorous? Like 85% of it? Without phosphorous, agriculture is phucked. Without phosphorous, there is no DNA...

I don't think it's about oil (they only supply 2% correct? and I understand it's inferior)

But I do think it's interesting that both Gaddhafi and Saddam wanted to move away from the petrodollar. You don't believe that plays a role in our decision to back NATO?

[china cat]

and i don't mind you being a naysayer - weeding through it all looking for some semblance of truth. vetting issues out is good.

[seany]

Saddam was in a much better position to do so. Him nationalizing the Iraqi oil was a huge factor in transforming him from a dictator that we tolerate to one that is a "threat."

Gaddafi not so much. Gaddafi has a huge ego and thinks himself a father figure to Africa. And maybe he has the money and sway to influence in Niger and Sudan, but he really never had much political influence in Africa except for financing waring factions. And, yes, they have oil, but not enough to command power. But Libya did have big contracts with Eni (Italy) and Total (France) and to a lesser extent BP.

There's no way that Gaddafi could have changed the oil currency, except for Libya. In which case, the market would have probably just dealt with it.

[TakeAStepBack]

You havent paid attention. United Africa under a gold currency would have fundamentally change some pretty specific economic relations.

[seany]

Please... There is no "United Africa." And if it did exist it would represent less than 2% of the world economy. And there is no gold standard. Sure - all of these things could have meaning if they happened all at once, but until that happens it is all speculative BS. You really think Africa is going to get its act together, unite, and that the world is going to shift back to a gold standard? I would have bought into the world shifting to the Euro, but that seems to be a passing fancy at least in the short term. The world will shift back to a gold standard when the dollar and euro collapse. Maybe that's in 2 years, 5, or 10, but not before then. And if China or India take up some economic reforms before that time, they might have the next standard. While gold is tangible, it's still arbitrary.

[TakeAStepBack]

Please... There is no "United Africa." And if it did exist it would represent less than 2% of the world economy. And there is no gold standard. Sure - all of these things could have meaning if they happened all at once, but until that happens it is all speculative BS. You really think Africa is going to get its act together, unite, and that the world is going to shift back to a gold standard? I would have bought into the world shifting to the Euro, but that seems to be a passing fancy at least in the short term. The world will shift back to a gold standard when the dollar and euro collapse. Maybe that's in 2 years, 5, or 10, but not before then. And if China or India take up some economic reforms before that time, they might have the next standard. While gold is tangible, it's still arbitrary.

So, you roll your eyes at those who regard africa's attempts at a gold standard as speculative, and then turn around and speculate in the same paragraph?
The implications of IF Africa did unite is pretty big for the western fiat currency. Enough so to consider Lybia a threat? It sounds plausible to me.

[seany]

Are you willing to bet a paycheck on Africa uniting? In this decade? And that somehow them uniting would change the the currency standard when all the African nations combined only account for about 1% of the world economy? Seriously?

[TakeAStepBack]

I don't think that a united africa would change the currency standard of the world economy. Lybia's former leader was the press to have a united africa under a gold currency and wanted to force trade between africa and others countries to be done under that standard. That is out the window at the moment, as Lybia has been invaded by western nations and 'regime change' brought in.

Whether it was for a combination of reasons including squashing any negotiations among african nations to unite under a gold standard, or not is rather irrelevant. Don't you agree?

As a plausible reasoning for swift regime change, it is on the table.

[seany]

My feeling is that Gaddafi was a pariah that many wished had had departed long ago, but since he wielded little power we just let him be like a benign tumor.

If the Egypt uprising hadn't happened, doubt that we would be there. There's little direct economic interest in Libya because we've boycotted them for decades. That doesn't mean there's not potential. I'm sure KBR and others could make a mint over there. But currently their oil is mainly going to Italy and France.

I think of it as more of the U.S. and Europe seeing an opportunity to take him out on the heels of the Egypt revolution. Ride the wave, nothing more. Gaddafi was an egomaniac that thought he wielded great power across Africa, but his true impact was nil. There's no way that he could have united Africa. and even if he did, the western world would have squashed any impact that might have had. Heck, oil companies can buy whole countries over there if they really want to.

[TakeAStepBack]

So handing the country over to Al Qaeda is just a concession we have to bare in order to illegally conduct regime change?

You can't seriously think that this is that cut and dry.

[seany]

Well, we've handed more strategically important countries over to a whole assortment of thugs before. So, yes.

Personally, I think the whole Al Qaeda connection to Libya is a little overblown. To my knowledge, they don't have a huge presence there or in surrounding nations, though there's surely some training camps. Al Qaeda in this sense seems to be a catch all for any Islamic fundamentalist that will pick up arms, not a true organized effort with a hierarchy.

[TakeAStepBack]

Al Qaeda has always been an overblown threat.

What does it say about our efforts to a war on terror?

Whether the regime change was done for many complex reasons, or simply because we wanted Gadahffi gone, the fact remains that it was done, from this countries stand point illegally both domestically and internationally.

Gold, oil, sand, foreign strategic interest, business, diplomatic, destabilization.

Pick one. Pick them all. Clearly this wasnt a humanitarian effort.
The only thing left to wonder about this scenario now is what will become of the country now?

Neoliberal and neoconservative interventions/occupations cost us dearly from all angles and we should be seriously re-examining our foriegn policy.

[seany]

Neoliberal and neoconservative interventions/occupations cost us dearly from all angles and we should be seriously re-examining our foriegn policy.

Absolutely. It's a fools game. But monied interest only consider short-term profits. Our Wall Street culture only cares about now - not a decade from now. Pump up those stocks, get a golden parachute, and get out. On to the next investment.

[seany]

oh, and, lolwaronterror

[TakeAStepBack]

Libya Counts More Martyrs Than Bodies

TRIPOLI, Libya

[Joker]

U.S. officials: Libya may have lost anti-aircraft missiles


Portable anti-aircraft missiles may have already been smuggled outside Libya's borders even as the United States races to help account for thousands of the weapons stockpiled by the regime of Moammar Gadhafi, U.S. officials say.

"We have reports that they may have in fact crossed borders," Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told USA TODAY.
Rogers says al-Qaeda would like to get its hands on the weapons, which fit in the trunk of a car and can take down a commercial jet.

Missiles like those have been used in attacks on 40 aircraft, causing 28 crashes and more than 800 deaths since 1975. Under Gadhafi, Libya had stockpiled about 20,000 of the missiles, called Man Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS).

Not all are missing, says the State Department, which is working with Libya's transitional government to account for the missiles.

"We believe that thousands of MANPADS were destroyed during NATO operations because weapons bunkers were a major target," said Andrew Shapiro, assistant secretary of State for political-military affairs.

Many missiles are also under the control of forces loyal to the transitional government there, and others are too old to work, the State Department said.

The sale of MANPADS is tightly controlled, but they have sometimes wound up in the hands of terrorists who used them to take down airliners in Georgia and Sri Lanka.

Most of Libya's stockpiles are SA-7s, a shoulder-fired missile that targets a heat source on an aircraft.

"There are some worrying indicators that some MANPADS, type non-specific, have left the country," said Gen. Carter Ham, head of U.S. Africa Command.

Shapiro cautioned the government doesn't have "firm reporting" that the missiles have crossed Libya's border but intends to "ramp up" the effort to account for the missiles. "It's certainly something that we're very concerned about," he said.

Rogers said the administration's pledge to not deploy troops in Libya made the government hesitant to deploy Americans to track the missiles until recently. "I have some concerns that we may be a little bit late," he said.

http://www.usatoday..../1?csp=obinsite

[TakeAStepBack]

Manpads...lmao. We spread so much joy in the world.....

[TakeAStepBack]

U.S. Sending More Contractors to Secure Libya’s Weapons Stockpile
http://www.nytimes.c...apons.html?_r=1

WASHINGTON — The State Department is sending dozens of American contractors to Libya to help that country’s fledgling efforts to track down and destroy heat-seeking antiaircraft missiles looted from government stockpiles that could be used against civilian airliners.
Related

The contractors, weapons and explosives specialists, are part of a growing $30 million American program to secure Libya’s conventional weapons arsenal, which was ransacked during the fall of the government of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

American and other Western officials are especially concerned that as weapons slip from state custody, they can be easily sold through black markets to other countries, fueling regional wars or arming terrorist groups. Analysts are particularly worried about the dispersal of the SA-7, an early-generation, shoulder-fired missile in the same family as the more widely known Stinger.

“We are very concerned about the threat that’s posed,” Andrew Shapiro, the assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs, told reporters on Friday after meetings in Brussels.

Mr. Shapiro said he had no estimate as to how many of the roughly 20,000 shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles that had been in Libya were unaccounted for since the fall of Colonel Qaddafi, but added, “In the wrong hands these systems could pose a potential threat to civil aviation.”

The State Department so far has sent 14 unarmed civilian contractors, many with military experience, to be part of teams led by Libya’s Transitional National Council, according to David I. McKeeby, a department spokesman. Mr. McKeeby said that an additional two to three dozen contractors would join the effort over the coming weeks.

The teams have surveyed and secured 20 of the former government’s 36 known ammunition depots, encompassing several hundred bunkers at each site, and have destroyed or disabled hundreds of the shoulder-fired missiles, he said. The deployment of the American contractors was reported on Friday by The Washington Post.

Though Western officials said they had asked rebel officials to secure Libya’s vast arsenal, there was little evidence on the ground of that effort. For months during the conflict, the capture of towns and cities was quickly followed by a familiar routine, in which rebel fighters — along with most anyone who showed up — converged on abandoned arsenals and emptied their stores.

After the initial looting, many depots remained unguarded or tended only occasionally for months.

Some depots appeared to have been bombed by NATO, but in many cases the airstrikes failed to destroy all of the weapons. In June, when rebel fighters reached an enormous depot in the mountains, they found many bunkers destroyed but also several full of weapons, including SA-7 components and antitank weapons. Several days later, the rebels said NATO planes had returned to bomb the depot again.

More than two weeks later, there was evidence that more SA-7 missiles had been taken from the site, called El-Ga’a.

In some cases, the arms depots were well hidden. As the rebels rushed toward Tripoli in late August, they stormed the base of the notorious Khamis Brigade. The base had been partly bombed by NATO, but many of the weapons stores appeared to be undamaged.

Down the street there was a warehouse full of arms, including SA-7s that were removed by the truckload, in a building that appeared to have been a cannery.

Eric Schmitt reported from Washington, and Kareem Fahim from Tripoli, Libya.

[TakeAStepBack]

Muammar Gaddafi's 'trophy' body on show in Misrata meat store

Libyans queue to see dictator's body as wounds appear to confirm he was killed in cold blood

Bloodied, wearing just a pair of khaki trousers, and dumped on a cheap mattress, Muammar Gaddafi's body has become a gruesome tourist attraction and a macabre symbol of the new Libya's problems.

Hundreds of ordinary Libyans queued up outside a refrigerated meat store in Misrata, where the dead dictator was being stored as a trophy. A guard allowed small groups into the room to celebrate next to Gaddafi's body. They posed for photos, flashing victory signs, and burst into jubilant cries of "God is great."

Wounds on Gaddafi's body appeared to confirm that he was indeed killed in cold blood in the chaotic minutes following his capture on Thursday. He was found in the town of Sirte, hiding in a drainage pipe. There was a close-range bullet wound on the left side of his head. Blood stains showed another bullet wound to his thorax. His body, subsequently driven to Misrata and publicly paraded, was barefoot and stripped to the waist.

Late on Friday the Gaddafi clan demanded a chance to bury the body. In a statement on a Syria-based pro-Gaddafi television station, the ousted dictator's family asked for the bodies of Gaddafi, his son Mo'tassim and others who were killed on Thursday by fighters who overran his hometown Sirte.

"We call on the UN, the Organisation of the Islamic Conference and Amnesty International to force the [National] Transitional Council to hand over the martyrs' bodies to our tribe in Sirte and to allow them to perform their burial ceremony in accordance with Islamic customs and rules," the statement said.

What to do with the fallen dictator's corpse is the subject of a row inside the National Transitional Council (NTC). Libya's interim prime minister, Mahmoud Jibril, arrived in Misrata to talk with local NTC representatives. They have made it abundantly clear they do not want Gaddafi to be buried in their town. The NTC leadership in Tripoli wants a solution quickly. One popular option is to bury him at sea, like Osama bin Laden.

The dispute threatens to overshadow NTC plans to declare a formal end to Libya's nine-month uprising . The council will announce from Benghazi, where the Libyan revolution began in February, that the project of national liberation is now complete. It will say a new, democratic post-Gaddafi era has begun.

Among ordinary Libyans, there were few regrets about the bloody and preemptive manner of Gaddafi's demise. Most worshippers at Friday prayers in the capital's Martyrs Square said they were pleased Gaddafi had been killed. But one young woman said: "Some people do care about the rule of law and don't think it's right that he should have been assassinated."

The NTC faces questions from international rights organisations. On Thursday, Jibril claimed that Gaddafi had been killed from a bullet to the head received in crossfire between rebel fighters and his supporters. He was dragged alive on to a truck, but died "when the car was moving", Jibril said, citing forensic reports.

Gruesome mobile phone footage obtained by the Global Post undermines this account. It records the minutes after Gaddafi's capture, when his convoy came under Nato and rebel attack. He is dragged out of a tunnel where he had been hiding. Blood is already pouring out of a wound on the left side of his head.

A group of fighters then frogmarch him towards a pick-up truck. There are shouts of "God is great" and the rattle of gunfire. At one point Gaddafi keels over; a fighter kicks him and scuffs dirt over his bloodstained clothing. The rebels prop Gaddafi back on his feet and propel him onwards.

Gaddafi is clearly dazed and wounded – but is alive, conscious, and pleading feebly with his captors. Fighters at the scene said that he was injured in the shoulder and leg when he was found. Fresh blood is also flowing from a head injury.

The evidence has prompted Amnesty International to call on the NTC to investigate. It said that if Gaddafi were deliberately killed, this would be a war crime. The NTC's position is that it will support an investigation because the new Libya is a law-abiding country, but officials seemed sceptical that it was necessary. "Even if he was killed intentionally, I think he deserves this," Mohammed Sayeh, a senior official, told the BBC. "If they kill him 1,000 times, I think it will not pay back the Libyans what he has done."

Amnesty also called for an investigation into the unexplained, violent death of Gaddafi's son Mutassim. Video footage that surfaced shows him calmly smoking a cigarette after his capture. Soon afterwards, someone appears to have shot him. His body is now on show in another freezer unit in Misrata.

In a televised interview, Gaddafi's cousin and former bodyguard claimed it was Mutassim, and not the dictator himself, who had been co-ordinating the loyalist resistance inside Sirte. Mansour Dao, who was captured with Gaddafi, also cast doubt on the account of Nato air strikes against the dictator's convoy. Instead, he said Gaddafi's convoy had received "heavy, heavy gunfire" from pursuing rebels. "They had us circled," he said.

Gaddafi's cousin added that their convoy was not escaping from Sirte, as has been reported, but was heading for the village where Gaddafi was born in the nearby Jarif valley. "Gaddafi did not run away, and he did not want to escape," Dao said. "We left the area [we were staying] towards Jarif, where he comes from. The rebels surrounded all the neighbourhood.

"They launched heavy raids on us which led to the destruction of the cars and the death of many individuals who were with us. After that, we came out of the cars and split into several groups and we walked on foot, and I was with Gaddafi's group that includes Abu Bakr Yunis and his sons and several volunteers and soldiers. I do not know what happened in the final moments, because I was unconscious after I was hit on my back."

One of the rebels who apparently captured Gaddafi told how his brigade had been on its way to support the Tiger Brigade when they spotted a group of "around 15" Gaddafi loyalists, some running right and left. They arrested them. "At that time, we were standing on top of the hole where Gaddafi was hiding," he said.

The unnamed rebel added: "We saw another two people hiding and fired on them ... Our colleague went down and he killed two of them ... Later on, we went to the other side and four or five ran out from under the road. And they surrendered themselves and they told us Gaddafi is hiding inside and is injured.

"When we entered the hole, I saw his bushy head, and I captured him immediately. Then all the fighters came and surrounded him."

The fighters retrieved Gaddafi's golden handgun, together with a second gun and a Thuraya phone.

Nato's role in Gaddafi's death remains controversial. French warplanes and a US Predator drone were involved in the attack on the dictator's convoy.

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, criticised the bombardment. The Kremlin has long complained that it was tricked into not vetoing the security council resolution allowing Nato to enforce a no-fly zone. Lavrov said: "There is no link between a no-fly zone and ground targets, including this convoy. Even more so since civilian life was not in danger because it [the convoy] was not attacking anyone."

The fate of Gadhafi's one-time heir apparent Seif al-Islam, meanwhile, was unclear. Justice minister Mohammed al-Alagi said al-Islam was wounded and being held in a hospital in the city of Zlitan. But information minister Mahmoud Shammam on Friday that the son's whereabouts were uncertain.

[TakeAStepBack]

Gaddafi's death: growing revulsion at the treatment of the dictator's body

As hundreds queue to see the former Libyan leader and his son lying dead in cold storage, the NTC is split on what to do next

The international acclaim for the Libyan revolution is being tempered by growing revulsion at the treatment of the bodies of Muammar Gaddafi and his son Mutassim.

As investigations continue into the circumstances of their deaths, their bullet-ridden bodies were still on show, with hundreds of people queuing to see them laid out in a cold storage room in Misrata. Occasional chants of "Allahu Akbar" ["God is greatest"] were heard from the crowd, but the calls were muted by the face masks worn by onlookers to overcome the smell from the decomposing bodies.

Nearly three days after the Libyan leader was captured and killed, he has still not been buried, contrary to Islamic custom – a fact that appears to be causing divisions within the National Transitional Council, which appeared paralysed by indecision over what to do with the bodies. One NTC official admitted that the continued presence of Gaddafi in cold storage was a cause of contention. "Under Islam he should have been buried quickly but they have to reach an agreement whether he is to be buried in Misrata, Sirte or somewhere else", he said.

Gaddafi's widow called from her exile in Algeria for the bodies of her son and husband to be entrusted to her, amid speculation that they could be secretly buried at sea, as in the case of Osama bin Laden, to prevent a burial place becoming a shrine.

There was confusion last night as to whether a postmortem had taken place earlier in the day. Fathi al-Bashaagha, the Misrata military council spokesman, said: "There will be no postmortem today, nor any day."

But the NTC's foreign affairs spokesman, Ahmed Gebreel, later told the BBC that the postmortem had been carried out on Saturday. Gebreel also said a deal had been reached with Gaddafi's extended family to hand over the dictator's body.

The authorities are adamant that it was necessary to put the dictator and his son on show to reassure the Libyan people. The oil ministe,r Ali Tarhouni, said: "I told them to keep it [the body] in the freezer for a few days … to make sure that everybody knows he is dead."

The UN has called for a full investigation into the circumstances of the dictator's death. Video footage recording the minutes after Gaddafi's capture last Thursday, when his convoy came under Nato and rebel attack, shows an alive but injured Gaddafi pleading for his life. Footage of Mutassim smoking a cigarette and seemingly only slightly injured shortly before his death has also raised concerns.

The footage has provoked the US into calling on Libya's new authorities to give a full account of the deaths in an "open and transparent manner".

of the fighters said to have captured the 69-year-old claimed Libya's former "brother leader" repeatedly offered gold and money in return for his life. "Gaddafi was confused, clearly frightened," Hammad Mufta Ali, 28, told the Italian daily newspaper Corriere della Sera.

"He was repeating that he would give everyone cash, that he would pay for our children to go to school. At one point someone yelled at him that instead of talking about money, he should pray, like a good Muslim, and entrust his soul to God before dying. But he continued to say he was ready to give us money, lots of money and gold."

Mufta Ali, the commander of the rebel Dawahi Brigade, told the newspaper he arrived moments after rebels had pulled Gaddafi from a drainage pipe in Sirte. He claimed the former Libyan leader died from blood loss from shrapnel and bullet wounds, rather than from one final gunshot to the head.

"There was a lot of confusion and Gaddafi was surrounded by our men. I saw him pushed and dragged down to the pavement," he said. "He was losing blood, lots of blood. At 69 the body can't resist. I believe he died from blood loss.

"When they left with him laid out in the back, I think he was already dead."

[TakeAStepBack]

This whole ordeal is not going to end in democracy or peace for libya. What will come, is British, French and American corporate governments beginning to solidify their hunk of Libyan resources, while propping up an AL-Qaeda tied "transitional Council".
I find it a lot of symbolism in killing the dictator.

[TakeAStepBack]

Obama hails death of Muammar Gaddafi as foreign policy success

President Barack Obama hailed the lifting of the "dark tyranny" over Libya after the new government confirmed Muammar Gaddafi had been killed, issuing a warning to other dictators in the Middle East

[TakeAStepBack]

"Innocent civilians were detained, beaten and killed...."

How does that defer from bombing civilians, the reported rapes, beatings and murders/executions by the rebels?

What a successful campaign.....

[TakeAStepBack]

[china cat]

[china cat]

[TakeAStepBack]

Will we ever wake up?

[china cat]

I thought Phelan's testimony was quite powerful.

[china cat]

[TakeAStepBack]

She spells out what some of us have known for months. With all the communications tech of today, this should be what people watch. Nato does not want to kill you, but will if you dont surrender quietly. We're here to help. Lolz...

[china cat]

true?

THE 7 REASONS WHY THE WEST WANTED GADAFFI DEAD

1. Gaddafi wouldn't bow down to ...the Rothschild central reserve banking cartel.

2. Gadaffi Proposed $400 million African Satellite - gadaffi alone came up with $300 million for this project.

For those ask whats the big deal in it, it's really a huge set back for European western countries, because they get paid by Africa every year $500 million per year in rent for the services European satellite provides to Africa.
Africa being self sufficient is definitely a set back for western economy.

3. AMF: African Monetary Fund - No more borrowing from Rothschild Central Bank for African countries, AMF was planned to produce its own currency for Africa, backed by Gold standard.
Interest free.

4. Libya's $300 Billion Gold reserves.

5. Libya sits on Africa's largest oil and natural gas reserves.

6. Gadaffi planned to free the entire African continent from the clutches of Western imperialism.

7. Libya's Blue gold - Libya's priceless water basins.

* In Libya there are four major underground basins, these being the Kufra basin, the Sirt basin, the Morzuk basin and the Hamada basin, the first three of which contain combined reserves of 35,000 cubic kilometres of water. These vast reserves offer almost unlimited amounts of water for the Libyan people. *In the 1960s during oil exploration deep in the southern Libyan desert, vast reservoirs of high quality water were discovered in the form of aquifers. * thus Gadaffi, started the construction for the Phase I of the $25 Billion "Great Man made River Project" in 1984.

The Great Man-Made River (GMR) is a network of pipes that supplies water from the Sahara Desert in Libya, from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer. It is the world's largest irrigation project
As of now, almost all three phases has been finished by the Libyan administration .

It carries more than five million cubic metres of water per day across the desert to coastal areas, vastly increasing the amount of arable land. The cost of one cubic meter of water equals 35 cents. The cubic meter of desalinized water is $3.75. Scientists estimate the amount of water to be equivalent to the flow of 200 years of water in the Nile River.

Here is the $70 trillion Blue Gold in Libya, that caught the most attention and Love of Bankers.

[TakeAStepBack]

Hard to say. All of these proposed reasons have been covered in this thread. We do know it wasnt a humanitarian effort. Bo.bing civilians seems in conflict with that reasoning.

[TakeAStepBack]

Libyan militias 'out of control,' Amnesty International says

(CNN) -- Armed militias in Libya are committing human rights abuses with impunity, threatening to destabilize the country and hindering its efforts to rebuild, Amnesty International said Thursday.

Militias have tortured detainees, targeted migrants and displaced entire communities in revenge attacks, according to a report the organization released a year after the start of popular uprisings that eventually ended Moammar Gadhafi's 42-year rule.

"Hundreds of armed militias, widely hailed in Libya as heroes for their role in toppling the former regime, are largely out of control," the report says.

Detainees at 10 facilities used by militia in central and western Libya told representatives from Amnesty International this year that they had been tortured or abused. Several detainees said they confessed to crimes they had not committed in order to stop the torture, Amnesty International said.

Libya: Gadhafi son under house arrest in Niger

At least 12 detainees held by militias have died after being tortured since September, the human rights organization said, adding that authorities have not effectively investigated the torture allegations.

"A year ago Libyans risked their lives to demand justice," Donatella Rovera, a senior crisis response adviser at Amnesty, said in a statement. "Today their hopes are being jeopardized by lawless armed militias who trample human rights with impunity. The only way to break with the entrenched practices of decades of abuse under (Gadhafi's) authoritarian rule is to ensure that nobody is above the law and that investigations are carried out into such abuses."

Libyan officials could not be immediately reached for comment.

A spokesman for the Tripoli Military Council told CNN on Wednesday that civilian leaders in Libya must do more to assert their authority, holding accountable militia members who perpetrate abuses.

"If the Libyan state is being built, these guys who committed this need to be brought to justice, whether they are revolutionary fighters or not, otherwise the whole world will ask, 'What changed in Libya?' The same systemic abuse and torture is continuing, and this is dangerous for the new Libya," council spokesman Anes Alsharif said. "The only solution is for the government to take over. You can not let these guys keep holding the prisoners."

Civilian authorities have been slow to step in, Alsharif said, even though some prisoners have been held for months without facing official charges.

"When you talk to the government they say, 'keep them, we don't have time yet.' and this is wrong," he said.

A process for government takeovers of prisons has begun, Libya's interim prime minister said in a televised address last month.

Libya's ambassador to the United Nations, Mohammed Shalgham, told the United Nations last month that Libya does not approve of any abuse of detainees and was working to stop any such practices.

Libyan Interior Minister Fawzy Abdilal told CNN this month that the country's interim government had not yet succeeded in integrating militias from different cities into a national security force.

Other organizations have also raised concerns about the militias.

The medical charity Doctors Without Borders said last month it was halting its work in detention centers in Misrata because detainees were tortured and were denied urgent medical care.

Human Rights Watch said earlier this month that the torture and killing of detainees is an ongoing practice among Libyan militias and will continue unless the militias are held to account.




Nice work, NATO! You spotted one tyrant and replaced him with several, including the arch enemy, al qaeda.

:really, really, really slow condescending clap:

Glad we weren't involved.

[Joker]

Thought this was familiar, just went back and saw it was already posted here

Worth watching if you missed it the first time

[Royal]

It's really simple, We kicked ass for the lord.

[TakeAStepBack]

http://news.antiwar....nsulate-attack/


Obama Sends Drones, Marines, and Warships to Libya Following Consulate Attack

It's possible some of the same rebel militias the US helped oust Gadhafi have now turned their sights on the US presence in Libya

by John Glaser, September 12, 2012


In response to the attack on the US consulate building in Libya on Tuesday night, now widely considered to have been planned by al-Qaeda, the Obama administration has ordered drones to fly over the country, additional US Marines to guard diplomatic buildings, and warships to the Libyan coast.
The administration on Wednesday announced sending drones to fly over Benghazi and other locations in eastern Libya in search of jihadi encampments that may have been involved in the attack, which killed four Americans. The fact that additional US Marines and warships, which carry Tomahawk missiles, have been included in the reaction could spell airstrikes in the near future.
These policies, as well as an extensive FBI investigation into the incident, appear to be the beginnings of what CBS News called “a terrorist hunt in Libya, as evidence mounts assault was perpetrated by al-Qaeda affiliates in Libya.
Al-Qaeda’s resurgence in Libya came as a direct result of the US-led NATO mission there which unseated former dictator Muammar Gadhafi and left a dangerous power vacuum in the country. It’s possible that some of the same rebel militias the US assisted in ousting Gadhafi have now used their renewed prominence against Washington’s interests in Libya.

[TakeAStepBack]

Some of us called this shit when we began this war against Libya. the unintended adn unseen consequences of interventionist policies always show up. Always. Now we have a brand new threat on our hands that we will have to spend billions, or trillions more in taxpayer money to try and "correct".

It absolutely FLOORS me that people support these actions by US/NATO/UN charters. The very group that supposedly killed thousands of our people on 9/11, we then help to over throw a legitimate government and install the very ideology we've spent over 10 years fighting abroad and at home.

These sick, sociopaths that run this country are going to end up getting all of us killed one day. But by all means, vote for one of them anyway.

[TakeAStepBack]

And i have to say, I thought Bush was the worst president we've had in my lifetime. Hands down. But I was wrong the current DUNCE in Chief is a bigger idiot by leaps and bounds.

[TakeAStepBack]

Congratulations on your special lynching, America. There isn't a single solitary person that this government will not kick under a fucking bus to save itself and make itself look morally right and just.
And by all means, keep spreading that democracy and freedom.

[MeOmYo]

But by all means, vote for one of them anyway.

Off topic, but I see a lot of people saying they are not going to vote at all this election and this thought process pisses me off. People don't want to vote because they don't feel they have options or their vote won't count anyway. I say bullshit. I don't care if you write in Mickey Mouse but vote. To think that a larger percentage of non-voters is going to help the situation is ridiculous. It only says that 1) we don't give a shit or 2) we are a stupid society. Either of will only expand the current situation. A larger percentage of voters, not voting for the 2 party system shows that society is fed up with the system and change can evolve from that.

Also, I do understand, that is not what you were implying. It just popped into my head.

[In A Silent Way]

So, who believes this is about the movie?

[TakeAStepBack]

So, who believes this is about the movie?

http://www.timesofis...sadors-killing/

Al-Qaeda-linked terror group now thought to be behind killing of US ambassador to Libya

Gunmen, reportedly marking 9/11 anniversary, used protest over anti-Islam film to foment chaos, take revenge for slain terror operative, officials believe; warships, marines en route to Libya

he attack on an American consulate building in Libya that left the ambassador and three other Americans dead may have been a planned operation by a group linked to al-Qaeda timed to coincide with the anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks, sources in the US and Libya said Wednesday.
Sources in Libya told CNN that al-Qaeda operatives carried out the attack in revenge for a slain terrorist operative, using the release of an anti-Islam movie as a pretext for the chaos.
Protesters stormed the US Consulate in Benghazi late Tuesday night, setting fire to the building and killing Ambassador Chris Stevens as well as three other staffers.
The four were reportedly killed when fired at by a rocket-propelled grenade, part of a planned attack on the compound by two waves of gunmen.
US officials said some 50 Marines were being sent to Libya to reinforce security at US diplomatic facilities.
The Marines are members of an elite group known as a Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team, or FAST, whose role is to respond on short notice to terrorism threats and to reinforce security at embassies.
The Marines, sent from a base in Spain, were headed initially to the US Embassy in Tripoli, not to Benghazi, according to US officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the press.
Officials also said the Pentagon decided to move two warships toward the Libyan coast.
Officials say one destroyer, the USS Laboon, moved to a position off the coast Wednesday, and the USS McFaul is en route and should be stationed off the coast within days. The officials say the ships, which carry Tomahawk missiles, do not have a specific mission. But they give commanders flexibility to respond to any mission ordered by the president.
According to Israel’s Channel 2 news analyst Ehud Yaari, the attack was planned to coincide with September 11, the anniversary of al-Qaeda’s attack on the US 11 years earlier, and was carried out in revenge for the killing of Abu Yahya al-Libi by US forces in June.
US officials say the Obama administration is also investigating whether it was a planned terrorist strike to mark the anniversary of 9/11. Intelligence officials said the attack on the Benghazi consulate was too coordinated or professional to be spontaneous, according to a US counterterrorism official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the incident publicly.
White House press secretary Jay Carney said it was too early to judge whether the attack was planned.
“I know that this is being investigated, and we’re working with the Libyan government to investigate the incident. I would not want to speculate on that at this time,” he said. Several Libyan security guards also were killed.
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said US intelligence had not yet determined who was responsible, but added, “Our list is narrowing.”
“When you see (such an attack), it wasn’t some folks who had some guns in their garage and said let’s shoot up the consulate,” Rogers said in an interview Wednesday.
The FBI was sending evidence teams to Libya, said a law enforcement official.
Hours before the attack, al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri released a video confirming Libi’s death and calling for his blood to be avenged. Yaari added that Zawahiri’s brother Mohammed, recently released from an Egyptian prison, may have had a hand in planning the attack as well.
Details of how the Americans were killed were still being pieced together Wednesday. But according to Libyan Deputy Interior Minister Wanis al-Sharef’s account, two distinct attacks took place.
Al-Sharef said Stevens and a consultate staffer who had stayed behind in the building were killed in the initial attack on the consulate.
The rest of the staff successfully evacuated to another building nearby, preparing to move to Benghazi Airport after daybreak to fly to the capital, Tripoli, he said.
Hours after the storming of the consulate, a separate group of gunmen attacked the other building, opening fire on the more than 30 Americans and Libyans inside. Two more Americans were killed and 32 wounded – 14 Americans and 18 Libyans, he said.
Stevens was a career member of the US Foreign Service specializing in the Middle East, and served at various diplomatic posts around the region, including a stint as political section chief at the US Consulate in Jerusalem.
US sources told CNN that the attacks were pre-planned, but were unable to confirm whether the protest over the film, a low-budget affair that depicts the Muslim prophet Mohammad in a harsh light, was part of the attack, or whether the terrorists merely took advantage of it.
They added that Stevens was likely not specifically targeted.
According to the report, the Imprisoned Omar Abdul Rahman Brigades is suspected to be behind the attack. The little-known terror group, with links to al-Qaeda, has claimed responsibility for other attacks on international forces near Benghazi in the past.
In Cairo, some 200 Islamists staged a second day of protest outside the U.S. Embassy on Wednesday, but there were no more attempts to scale the embassy walls. After nightfall, the group dwindled and some protesters scuffled with police, who fired tear gas and dispersed them, emptying the streets.

[TakeAStepBack]

Good idea! Lets send some more of our men in as cannon fodder. Why are we even over there at qall? What is the point of occupying all of these countries?

We have more proxy wars now under Obama than we had under Bush!
Libya
Afghan
Iraq
Syria
Yemen
Pakistan
and the list goes on


The bottom line is that these people dont hate our freedoms or our way of life. They hate that we meddle in their countries. They do not want our help, our system or our people there. The answer to these problems is to leave them alone and get out of their countries.

But there is that America "exceptionalism", or pride that always stands in the way of making fucking sense in this country.

[TakeAStepBack]

Off topic, but I see a lot of people saying they are not going to vote at all this election and this thought process pisses me off. People don't want to vote because they don't feel they have options or their vote won't count anyway. I say bullshit. I don't care if you write in Mickey Mouse but vote. To think that a larger percentage of non-voters is going to help the situation is ridiculous. It only says that 1) we don't give a shit or 2) we are a stupid society. Either of will only expand the current situation. A larger percentage of voters, not voting for the 2 party system shows that society is fed up with the system and change can evolve from that.

Also, I do understand, that is not what you were implying. It just popped into my head.

It is exactly what I'm implying. If our votes actually counted, we wouldn't be allowed to do it anyway. The establishment has made it uber clear that noone with any opposing viewpoints will be allowed at the table. Period. Your voting for whom they serve up to you to vote for and for the last several decades it's been nothing but the same exact shit from either side of the aisle. Because there aren't two parties, there is one federal government party.

[MeOmYo]

I think this system is capitalizing on party line voters leftover from an era where there was a difference. That and, 1. people that don't give a shit 2. ignorance. Newer generations can make a difference, if we want. If we vote.

[TakeAStepBack]

I know what you mean, but I think we're passed any point where people are going to spontaneously wake up and vote these narcissists out. In short, the only way anything is going to change in our system is when it finally implodes. The way it worked int eh RNC primary this round showed that. There will be no voice outside of what the establishment wants in the agenda.

[hoagie]

Pass the Jingos!

[TakeAStepBack]

I find no humor in any of this. People are being murdered in our name.

[hoagie]

Good idea! Lets send some more of our men in as cannon fodder. Why are we even over there at qall? What is the point of occupying all of these countries?

We have more proxy wars now under Obama than we had under Bush!
Libya
Afghan
Iraq
Syria
Yemen
Pakistan
and the list goes on


The bottom line is that these people dont hate our freedoms or our way of life. They hate that we meddle in their countries. They do not want our help, our system or our people there. The answer to these problems is to leave them alone and get out of their countries.

But there is that America "exceptionalism", or pride that always stands in the way of making fucking sense in this country.

I see a connection between the countries listed above, and the countries where the majority of people abstain from drinking beer and eating bacon.

[Tim the Beek]

Off topic, but I see a lot of people saying they are not going to vote at all this election and this thought process pisses me off. People don't want to vote because they don't feel they have options or their vote won't count anyway.

I won't be voting because I refuse, by voting, to give my consent, implicitly, to a system which is so fundamentally broken and corrupt. If I thought the was a prayer of changing things from within the system at this point, I'd be right there with you at the polls. I don't.