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USA's Liberation of Libya has begun.


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#451 Spidergawd

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:12 PM

I see what you're saying Tim. What I don't see, however, is how that's going to help anything but make YOU feel better. Listen, you know I love you man, but that just doesn't make sense to me. The way I see it, you can vote, and perhaps think it's not doing anything, or you can not vote and be 100% certain it isn't.

Like the system or not, it's the only one we have right now and I'll be damned if I won't participate.

#452 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:53 PM

http://www.independe...on-8135797.html



The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.

American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.
The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".
Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.
According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.
Mr Stevens had been on a visit to Germany, Austria and Sweden and had just returned to Libya when the Benghazi trip took place with the US embassy's security staff deciding that the trip could be undertaken safely.
Eight Americans, some from the military, were wounded in the attack which claimed the lives of Mr Stevens, Sean Smith, an information officer, and two US Marines. All staff from Benghazi have now been moved to the capital, Tripoli, and those whose work is deemed to be non-essential may be flown out of Libya.
In the meantime a Marine Corps FAST Anti-Terrorism Reaction Team has already arrived in the country from a base in Spain and other personnel are believed to be on the way. Additional units have been put on standby to move to other states where their presence may be needed in the outbreak of anti-American fury triggered by publicity about a film which demeaned the Prophet Mohamed.
A mob of several hundred stormed the US embassy in the Yemeni capital Sanaa yesterday. Other missions which have been put on special alert include almost all those in the Middle East, as well as in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Armenia, Burundi and Zambia.
Senior officials are increasingly convinced, however, that the ferocious nature of the Benghazi attack, in which rocket-propelled grenades were used, indicated it was not the result of spontaneous anger due to the video, called Innocence of Muslims. Patrick Kennedy, Under-Secretary at the State Department, said he was convinced the assault was planned due to its extensive nature and the proliferation of weapons.
There is growing belief that the attack was in revenge for the killing in a drone strike in Pakistan of Mohammed Hassan Qaed, an al-Qa'ida operative who was, as his nom-de-guerre Abu Yahya al-Libi suggests, from Libya, and timed for the anniversary of the 11 September attacks. Senator Bill Nelson, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said: "I am asking my colleagues on the committee to immediately investigate what role al-Qa'ida or its affiliates may have played in the attack and to take appropriate action."
According to security sources the consulate had been given a "health check" in preparation for any violence connected to the 9/11 anniversary. In the event, the perimeter was breached within 15 minutes of an angry crowd starting to attack it at around 10pm on Tuesday night. There was, according to witnesses, little defence put up by the 30 or more local guards meant to protect the staff. Ali Fetori, a 59-year-old accountant who lives near by, said: "The security people just all ran away and the people in charge were the young men with guns and bombs."
Wissam Buhmeid, the commander of the Tripoli government-sanctioned Libya's Shield Brigade, effectively a police force for Benghazi, maintained that it was anger over the Mohamed video which made the guards abandon their post. "There were definitely people from the security forces who let the attack happen because they were themselves offended by the film; they would absolutely put their loyalty to the Prophet over the consulate. The deaths are all nothing compared to insulting the Prophet."
Mr Stevens, it is believed, was left in the building by the rest of the staff after they failed to find him in dense smoke caused by a blaze which had engulfed the building. He was discovered lying unconscious by local people and taken to a hospital, the Benghazi Medical Centre, where, according to a doctor, Ziad Abu Ziad, he died from smoke inhalation.
An eight-strong American rescue team was sent from Tripoli and taken by troops under Captain Fathi al- Obeidi, of the February 17 Brigade, to the secret safe house to extract around 40 US staff. The building then came under fire from heavy weapons. "I don't know how they found the place to carry out the attack. It was planned, the accuracy with which the mortars hit us was too good for any ordinary revolutionaries," said Captain Obeidi. "It began to rain down on us, about six mortars fell directly on the path to the villa."
Libyan reinforcements eventually arrived, and the attack ended. News had arrived of Mr Stevens, and his body was picked up from the hospital and taken back to Tripoli with the other dead and the survivors.
Mr Stevens' mother, Mary Commanday, spoke of her son yesterday. "He did love what he did, and he did a very good job with it. He could have done a lot of other things, but this was his passion. I have a hole in my heart," she said.
Global anger: The protests spread
Yemen
The furore across the Middle East over the controversial film about the Prophet Mohamed is now threatening to get out of control. In Sana'a, the Yemeni capital, yesterday around 5,000 demonstrators attacked the US embassy, leaving at least 15 people injured. Young protesters, shouted: "We sacrifice ourselves for you, Messenger of God," smashed windows of the security offices and burned at least five cars, witnesses said.
Egypt
Egypt's Islamist President Mohamed Morsi yesterday condemned the attack in Benghazi that killed the US ambassador. In a speech in Brussels, Mr Morsi said he had spoken to President Obama and condemned "in the clearest terms" the Tuesday attacks. Despite this, and possibly playing to a domestic audience, President Obama said yesterday that "I don't think we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy".
Demonstrators in Cairo attacked the mission on Tuesday evening and protests have continued since.
Iraq
Militants said the anti-Islamic film "will put all the American interests Iraq in danger" and called on Muslims everywhere to "face our joint enemy", as protesters in Baghdad burned American flags yesterday. The warning from the Iranian-backed group Asaib Ahl al-Haq came as demonstrators demanded the closure of the US embassy in the capital.
Bangladesh
Islamists warned they may "besiege" the US embassy in Dhaka after security forces stopped around 1,000 protesters marching to the building. The Khelafat Andolon group called for bigger protests as demonstrators threw their fists in the air, burned the flag and chanted anti-US slogans.
Others
There was a Hamas-organised protest in Gaza City, and as many as 100 Arab Israelis took to the streets in Tel Aviv. In Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai postponed a trip to Norway, fearing violence. Officials in Pakistan said they "expected protests". Protesters in Tunis burnt US flags.

#453 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

I see what you're saying Tim. What I don't see, however, is how that's going to help anything but make YOU feel better. Listen, you know I love you man, but that just doesn't make sense to me. The way I see it, you can vote, and perhaps think it's not doing anything, or you can not vote and be 100% certain it isn't.

Like the system or not, it's the only one we have right now and I'll be damned if I won't participate.


Right. Like voting for more years of the current pile of shit in the oval. Vote if you want to, but your vote doesn't count unless the establishment says it does. See how that works?

#454 MeOmYo

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:37 PM

I won't be voting because I refuse, by voting, to give my consent, implicitly, to a system which is so fundamentally broken and corrupt. If I thought the was a prayer of changing things from within the system at this point, I'd be right there with you at the polls. I don't.


I hear ya, in essence, you've given up. IMO, by taking this stance, you are contributing to the problem.

#455 Tim the Beek

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:39 PM

I see what you're saying Tim. What I don't see, however, is how that's going to help anything but make YOU feel better. Listen, you know I love you man, but that just doesn't make sense to me. The way I see it, you can vote, and perhaps think it's not doing anything, or you can not vote and be 100% certain it isn't.

Like the system or not, it's the only one we have right now and I'll be damned if I won't participate.


Fair 'nuff, brother. And I certainly wouldn't give anyone a hard time for participating. It's just where I'm at.

And it is, in part, about my feeling better...but I think that's ok when it comes to personal ethics...I feel it would be wrong (for me) to participate.

Though I'm not sure my position does nothing - if I was just sitting at home not saying anything, it would be absolutely fruitless. But maybe...just maybe...by talking about it, some people will start to think...this guy, who has voted in every Presidential election he's been eligible to vote in since he was 18...who has voted in many of the midterm and local elections...who was proud and honored and grateful to be able to cast those ballots, says he doesn't see the point any longer...Something needs to change.

#456 Tim the Beek

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:41 PM

I hear ya, in essence, you've given up. IMO, by taking this stance, you are contributing to the problem.


See my post above. For me, participating at this point would be contributing to the problem. Maybe speaking out about the why of it can make a contribution to fixing things.

BTW, this was not a decision which came easily to me. Lotta thinking and soulsearching has gone into it.

#457 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:46 PM

Revoking ones consent to be governed by crooks is not part of the problem. Complacently complying with establishment crook demands by voting for one of the two federal government candidates, or choosing some little known not allowed to participate in the public forum candidate who has no chance in hell, is exactly the problem. If no one voted in Novemeber, I bet the media would still show vote numbers and choose a winner.

#458 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:47 PM

Congress was warned about Libya last month

http://e-ring.foreig...bya_last_month

While Washington vacationed in August, the non-partisan Congressional Research Service issued a now prescient-sounding report warning that Libya's security concerns were an "immediate priority" that might require far more attention and resources than the United States had given it.

"Libya's security remains a function of Libyans' self-restraint rather than the capability of security authorities," CRS warned.

That self-restraint broke down severely this week as, according to U.S. officials, an apparently coordinated attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi emerged from a crowded protest, leading to the death of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and others. It was the apex of a string of concerning violent incidents dating back months.

The author of the report, Christopher Blanchard, specialist in Middle Eastern affairs, on Thursday told the E-Ring, "Security has deteriorated since the election [in July] and the government has not appeared able to stop attacks on religious buildings or an ongoing string of assassination attacks on former regime security officials. The attacks on the U.S. offices in Benghazi were the latest and most severe in a series of attacks on foreign diplomatic facilities and international organizations in Libya."

"This incident underscores what the State Department itself said in its late August travel warning: militia groups outside of state control are active in Libya and pose a direct threat to Libyans and foreigners."

According to Blanchard's report, which is titled Libya: Transition and U.S. Policy and dated August 9, 2012, Libyan security is severely hampered by several factors, as the country continues to emerge from civil war and moves haltingly toward unifying its governance and security institutions and ad-hoc groups.

U.S. officials and outside experts, CRS stated, already harbored significant concerns over loose security at the country's borders and "hundreds of suspected weapons sites," in addition to massive proliferation of small arms, shoulder-fired MANPADS rockets, and "heavy weaponry" in and just outside of Libya.

The combination of those factors, CRS surmised, specifically worried counterterrorism and arms-trafficking experts, citing "unexploded ordnance, explosive remnants, and looted weaponry."

The precarious security situation is made worse by the existence and state-reliance on militia groups across the country, only some of which have willingly integrated, to various degrees, with official security forces.

"Security concerns remain the immediate priority, as a series of isolated armed conflicts and attacks on international targets in several cities have raised serious questions about the ability of the interim authorities to ensure order," wrote Blanchard. "As of August 2012, militia groups remained active and influential, with some acknowledging and participating in government efforts to assert central security authority. Public displays of weapons, attacks on international targets, and isolated armed clashes underscore the threats posed by some groups. Security officials continue to rely on irregular forces to provide security in much of the country."

The report continues, "Libyans' initial euphoria at the downfall of Muammar al Qadhafi has settled into an uneasy mix of hope and fear about the country's future."

By August, CRS concluded, "popular patience has waned."

On Thursday, Blanchard said Libya's limited "ability to provide security creates a dilemma for U.S. decision makers." If the U.S. targets "hostile groups" or even provides direct security support for the Libyan government to do so, it may "inflame local opinion and undermine the image of the recently elected government among some Libyans."

And any expansion of U.S. assistance would take time and money, both of which are "politically controversial...in both countries."

#459 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

this is Obama's Iraq.

He owns this pile of shit he made. Don't forget that, supporters.

#460 hoagie

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

this is Obama's Iraq.

He owns this pile of shit he made. Don't forget that, supporters.


indeed

#461 In A Silent Way

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:28 PM

Four guards, and (at least) one was a rat.

#462 vic

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:17 PM

http://www.timesofis...sadors-killing/

Al-Qaeda-linked terror group now thought to be behind killing of US ambassador to Libya

[b]


Uhhhh...what protest?
http://www.mcclatchy...azi-attack.html

#463 vic

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:20 PM

Whoops over-deleted

#464 china cat

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:18 PM

I see what you're saying Tim. What I don't see, however, is how that's going to help anything but make YOU feel better. Listen, you know I love you man, but that just doesn't make sense to me. The way I see it, you can vote, and perhaps think it's not doing anything, or you can not vote and be 100% certain it isn't.

Like the system or not, it's the only one we have right now and I'll be damned if I won't participate.


It's the one we have right now because we've allowed it and continue to perpetuate it. If you don't like the current system, stop participating in it.


issue further discussed here - very interesting discussion.

http://www.gathering...f-the-governed/

there are a few state candidates I will vote for and will prolly write in for president (having said that, I think it's futile as I believe the system is rigged in a way that 3rd party cannot win - no anti-establishment candidate can win)

And I will not be shamed/bullied into voting in the future if (I choose not to) because I would be abstaining, in large part, as a "conscientious objector,"

I'd never vote for Obama/Romney. While some point to differences regarding supreme court nominees, etc... other policies are so grossly offensive to me that I cannot in good conscience vote for them. If you vote Obama, you knowingly vote drone strikes, Wall Street, Monsanto, NDAA, Patriot Act... on and on... And if you vote for Romney, you vote for drone strikes, Wall Street, Monsanto, NDAA, Patriot Act..

#465 hoagie

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:58 PM

" If you don't like the current system, stop participating in it."
Why can't I convince my parents of this fact?

#466 Tim the Beek

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

And I will not be shamed/bullied into voting in the future if I choose not to because I would be abstaining, in large part, as a "conscientious objector,"


No shame in living one's conscience, even if one's conscience isn't popular. Long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights.

#467 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:11 PM

you know... the system is NOT going to stop just because some of the 99% decide not to participate in it.

I think that's wishful thinking.

1% of the population is more than enough people to keep the machine running.

#468 Tim the Beek

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:51 PM

1% of the population is more than enough people to keep the machine running.


Which isn't to say that, on a personal level for me, collaborating with that machine is right or ethical...

#469 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:02 PM

I'm glad you feel that way.

I don't feel like I have the luxury of being able to choose whether or not to participate. For me, it's about survival - do or die.

#470 Joker

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

Militants Attacked Benghazi Outpost Over and Over




They might as well as painted a target on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. During the spring and summer, militants attacked the American diplomatic outpost and other symbols of western influence over and over again, according a new letter from top Congressional investigators. Yet security at the consulate remained light, with only a small coterie of contract guards assigned to defend it. No wonder guerrillas — widely assumed to be connected to al-Qaeda — were able to overwhelm the consulate, and kill the American
ambassador there.

On April 6, two Libyans who had been fired as unarmed guards for the consulate “threw a small IED [improvised explosive device] over the Consulate fence,” explains the letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from Rep. Darrel Issa, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, and Rep. Jason Chaffetz, who heads the subcommittee on national security. The improvised bomb didn’t hurt anyone. Nor did it cause any damage. But it was a harbinger of things to come.

Two months later, the congressmen write, “under cover of darkness, assailants placed an IED on the north gate of Consulate Benghazi, blowing a hole in the security perimeter that was described by one individual as, ‘big enough for forty men to go through.’” Four days after that, the British ambassador’s two-car convoy “was attacked in broad daylight” by a militant with a rocket-propelled grenade, or RPG.

Militants made clear that the U.S. ambassador, Chris Stevens, was next on the target list. “Stevens was in the habit of taking early morning runs around Tripoli along with members of his security detail,” continues the letter (.pdf), which is sourced to unnamed “individuals with direct knowledge of events in Libya” and was first obtained by Eli Lake of The Daily Beast. “Sometime in June 2012,” the letter continues, “a posting on a pro-Gaddafi Facebook page trumpeted these runs and directed a threat against Ambassador Stevens along with a stock photo of him.” Stevens stopped the runs — but only for a week. Then he went out jogging again.

When Stevens and his fellow diplomats were killed in a complex attack on the consulate on September 11, the Obama administration initially blamed a mob enraged by an anti-Islam video for the assault. No mention was made of the militants’ prior assaults, nor of the consulate’s relatively lax defensive posture. Within days, the White House’s explanation slowly unraveled — and has now become a major political issue in the American elections. ”We’ve seen a confused, slow, inconsistent response to what is now very clearly known as a terrorist act,” Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan said in a Monday radio interview.

That political pressure is likely to increase. Issa and Chaffetz will hold hearings on the Benghazi attack starting on October 10, less than a month before the election. All U.S. government officials have now been sent home from Benghazi, because of the danger to American personnel. One question that the House Oversight Committee will almost certainly investigate is why those risks weren’t spotted sooner — especially since there were so many other attacks in the vicinity.

As Danger Room first reported, the U.S. military never protected the Benghazi outpost. That job was instead left to a small British private security firm, named Blue Mountain, that was paid $783,000 for it efforts. In the weeks leading up to the September 11 assault, the unarmed Libyan guards employed by Blue Mountain Group were “warned by their family members to quit their jobs… because there were rumors in the community of an impending attack,” Issa and Chaffetz write. There were no smoke-protection masks or fire extinguishers, so consulate staff couldn’t put out the flames once the place started to burn. A source tells Fox News that the only protective equipment stationed at the consulate were a few video cameras.

All this despite an April 11 battle — which included antiaircraft guns and RPGs — that erupted just two-and-a-half miles from the consulate. Fifteen days after that, an American Foreign Service Officer had to be pulled out of a firefight by members of a local militia, the February 17 Brigade. (U.S. intelligence is now analyzing communications between that group and al-Qaeda affiliates.) The following day, a pair of South African contractors were kidnapped in a residential neighborhood of Benghazi the following day.

Less than a month later, two RPG rounds were fired at the Benghazi office of the International Committee of the Red Cross, a little more than a half-mile from the U.S. consulate. “We didn’t want to hurt the Christians; it is just a warning,” read a Facebook message from a militant group, according to the Issa and Chaffetz letter. “Now we are preparing a message for the Americans.”

In August, the Red Cross building was attacked again, forcing the group to suspend its work in the city. “Once the ICRC pulled out,” Issa and Chaffetz write, “the U.S. consulate was the last Western flag flying in Benghazi, making it an ideal target for militants.”



http://www.wired.com...12/10/benghazi/