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OMG Nuclear plant explodes in japan


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#51 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:19 PM

They keep saying it isa good thing that the radioactive material is being swept offshore by the winds...but is that really a good thing in any case? :dunno:

If you live in Tokyo that's your preference

#52 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:22 PM

If you live in Tokyo that's your preference


Yeah, i totally get that it helps reduce concentration in populated areas. But what about the environmental effects? No telling? No one cares?

#53 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:27 PM

I care :heart:

#54 GoPlastic

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:49 PM

Yeah, i totally get that it helps reduce concentration in populated areas. But what about the environmental effects? No telling? No one cares?


earlier in this thread i reminded everyone that we did a fantastic job on intentionally irradiating much of the south Pacific back in the day. if there's one or more total reactor failures at Fukushima-Daiichi, i'm rooting for the winds to gently blow as much of the radiation to sea as is possible, rather than contaminate one of the most densely-populated pieces of land on the planet. 25 years later, and the Zone of Alienation around Chernobyl is still completely uninhabitable, though workers at the plant (decommissioned) still work there, and about 3,000 others are employed within the zone, and must work strictly-monitored shifts. no one resides within the zone, which has the same radius from the site of the accident (30Km or roughly 19M) as Japanese officials have currently established around their disaster zone. a plume sweeping directly towards Tokyo is a scenario of catastrophic proportions, with devastating loss of human life due to radiation sickness and cancers for many many years to come.

so if it happens, i'm pulling for a light wind blowing offshore.

#55 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:59 PM

Yeah, but what is the outcome of all that radiation blown out to sea. I get all of that, GoP.

#56 GoPlastic

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 02:06 PM

Yeah, but what is the outcome of all that radiation blown out to sea. I get all of that, GoP.


overall radiation levels will rise across the world for a while, then stabilize again. the ocean will disperse whatever lands on it, and the atmosphere will carry the rest of it with the winds, ending up in places like Russia, Alaska, Canada, and the pacific coast of the U.S. for starters.

#57 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 02:11 PM

Awesome.

#58 GoPlastic

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 02:15 PM

Awesome.


right? still that much better to let it travel thousands of miles and disperse before reaching any significantly populated areas than have it float 120 miles and drop on a metropolitan area of 39 million, right?

this is still nothing but speculation. far too many unanswered questions to have any idea what the end result will be here. if everything stabilizes, it's still the 2nd worst nuclear accident ever. here's hoping it stays there.

#59 GoPlastic

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 01:37 PM

if everything stabilizes, it's still the 2nd worst nuclear accident ever. here's hoping it stays there.


it's not staying there. :bang: (my thoughts on each situation in italics.)

http://english.kyodo...1/03/78614.html

Status of quake-stricken reactors at Fukushima nuclear power plants

TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

The following is the known status as of Wednesday evening of each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and the four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture, which were crippled by Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and the ensuing tsunami.

Fukushima No. 1 plant

-- Reactor No. 1 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, building damaged Saturday by hydrogen explosion, seawater being pumped in.

this is actually the best scenario of the four damaged units, if it can stay cool.

-- Reactor No. 2 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Monday by blast at reactor No. 3, damage to containment vessel on Tuesday, potential meltdown feared.

this is the worst scenario of the damaged units. sans catastrophic explosion, this is your "Chernobyl"...a full meltdown without containment.

-- Reactor No. 3 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building housing reactor damaged Monday by hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby on Tuesday, plume of smoke observed Wednesday, damage to containment vessel likely.

this situation was on par with reactor no. 1, until they announced today that it's on par with reactor no. 2. very bad.

-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, abnormal temperature rise in spent-fuel storage pool but water level not observed, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, no water poured in to cool pool, spraying of boric **** being considered.

this is the unknown factor. if the cooling pond dries up and the fuel rods are in any way damaged, they could resume a reaction. this would be devastaing, as these rods aren't in a containment unit at all, and therefore would simply start dumping massive amounts of radiation into the environment in such an event.

-- Reactors No. 5, No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperatures slightly rising in spent-fuel storage pools.

this is how the trouble in reactor no. 4 started. they must keep these rods cool at any cost.

.......................................

they couldn't even bring in helicopters to try dumping seawater on the reactors, as radiation levels have risen dramatically in the past 12 hours. we may be witnessing them abandon the entire site soon. :undecided:

#60 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 02:09 PM

oy :undecided:

#61 cj

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    canadian, eh!

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 02:14 PM

overall radiation levels will rise across the world for a while, then stabilize again. the ocean will disperse whatever lands on it, and the atmosphere will carry the rest of it with the winds, ending up in places like Russia, Alaska, Canada, and the pacific coast of the U.S. for starters.


so all the fish can look like this!
Posted Image

#62 GoPlastic

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 03:15 PM

so all the fish can look like this!
Posted Image


:lol: Blinky!

nature's kind of incredible, cj. much of the Iodine-131 will actually be absorbed by the ocean and turned into Soium Iodide. the Cesium-137 has a pretty nasty half-life, though. entirely a man-made isotope, they can actually date sealed bottles of wine to pre-atom bomb days by testing for it. :eek:

#63 seany

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 03:23 PM

We really need one of those huge domes like in The Simpsons Movie for situations like this. Store it somewhere out in Idaho or North Dakota. :undecided:

#64 HappieKamper

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 03:31 PM

I used to live near and work at the Hanford nuclear reservation in WA. Our house had a bomb shelter.

#65 bitrush

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:56 PM

[QUOTE=GoPlastic;1076939 the Cesium-137 has a pretty nasty half-life, though. entirely a man-made isotope, they can actually date sealed bottles of wine to pre-atom bomb days by testing for it. :eek:[/QUOTE]

Caesium-137 has a small number of practical uses. In small amounts, it is used to calibrate radiation-detection equipment. It is also sometimes used in cancer treatment, and it is also used industrially in gauges for measuring liquid flows and the thickness of materials.

Has a halflife of 30 years

#66 GoPlastic

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:59 PM

Caesium-137 has a small number of practical uses. In small amounts, it is used to calibrate radiation-detection equipment. It is also sometimes used in cancer treatment, and it is also used industrially in gauges for measuring liquid flows and the thickness of materials.

Has a halflife of 30 years


tell that to the ocean! :lol: "here you go, look, you can measure liquids flows now...hey you're not even listening, are you?"

my point was more one of "nature doesn't have a real good exit strategy for this stuff, as opposed to the Iodine-131 which it can pretty much handle."

#67 GoPlastic

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:34 AM

radiation levels rising across the board, all 6 reactors now in trouble as the temperatures in the fuel storage pools at no. 5 and no. 6 are rising quickly, army helicopters attempting to dump water through the radioactivity regardless and missing their target because of high winds, water cannons being used in a last-ditch effort to stave off complete catastrophe. :heart: the brave souls who are literally giving all to save their nation. :heart:

Tokyo Electric is hoping to have a new power line established soon to return power to the site and restore the cooling processes. they need to beat a full meltdown or criticality accident though, or they'll be a day late and a dollar short. it's truly the last chance to avoid the worst-case scenario, if such a chance still exists. my thoughts are with the entire nation of Japan as they wage this battle.

#68 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:36 AM

MIT NSE Nuclear Information Hub

#69 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:38 AM

Canadian nuclear plant leaked 19,000 gallons of demineralized water into Lake Ontario

Published: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 6:20 PM Updated: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 7:41 PM

Posted Image

Toronto, NY -- Canada’s nuclear regulator says a leak at a power plant caused 19,000 gallons of demineralized water to be released into Lake Ontario, but there is no significant risks to public health. The Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission said Wednesday that the water was released from the Ontario Power Generation plant in Pickering, Ontario, Monday and the commission was informed around 11:30 p.m. that day. The agency says the leak was caused by pump seal failure.
Ontario Power Generation says the leak was stopped immediately upon discovery and the pump seal is being replaced.
"The event was a low-level regulatory event with only negligible effect to the environment and no public health implications," Ontario Power said in a release.
The plant says the filtered water contained trace amounts of tritium — far below any regulatory limits — and should have no impact on the quality of the drinking water, some of which is sourced from Lake Ontario.

http://www.syracuse....uclear_pla.html

#70 sarah b.

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 06:03 AM

jiminy.:undecided:

#71 Royal

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 06:36 AM

I feel really dumb that I dont understand all of this stuff.

#72 Speckta

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:06 PM

I saw the thread title and saw new shit happened. Then I clicked the link and saw it was 5 days old..

Had me freaking out over nothing... :coffee:

#73 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:07 PM

Well, it isnt getting any better over there.....

#74 MeOmYo

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:09 PM

Well, it isnt getting any better over there.....


In fact, I would say it's more accurate now than it was then

#75 Speckta

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:10 PM

Granted, and things are looking grimmer every day, but we're still not at the complete nuclear melt-down stage, and so far I've only heard one expert say it'll get to Chernobyl status.

I'm checking my twitter feed now for the latest updates.

#76 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:14 PM

I feel really dumb that I dont understand all of this stuff.

This could help:

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Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy



#77 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:24 PM

Granted, and things are looking grimmer every day, but we're still not at the complete nuclear melt-down stage, and so far I've only heard one expert say it'll get to Chernobyl status.

I'm checking my twitter feed now for the latest updates.


Comparing Japan's crisis to Chernobyl is rather ridiculous I believe. :coffee:

#78 Speckta

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:27 PM

Well, people have said it.

However, only one expert has gone so far as to say he thought it was already worse than Chernobyl. Every other expert say there's a lot of ins and outs, you know, and... the plant may have kidnapped itself.

#79 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:33 PM

Bottom line, this is multi-facat issue in Japan. The reactor incident of Chernobyl isn't even of the same category as Japan's east coast multi-reactor simultaneous complex. The containment should be much better in Japan, if I understand these facilities properly. The "experts" are also presumably warned about the harshness of their critique as well. There is no way we will ever get teh full story because it will cause panic. Something that the officials definitely do not want.

I heard last night the acceptable exposure levels were raised in the "fall-out" areas. Which to me, indicates that RAD levals are much higher than being reported.

#80 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:12 PM

Comparing Japan's crisis to Chernobyl is rather ridiculous I believe. :coffee:

Why?

Obviously they're not the same thing. But there are comparisons.

And in fact the "kill strategy" may very well have to be the same .. sand and concrete sarcophagus

#81 Tim the Beek

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:20 PM

I suspect that the severity of what's going on lies somewhere in between what the media and the Japanese government/Tepco are suggesting.

What I'm certain of is that the gov't/power company have done a poor job of conveying what's going on. Even cutting them some slack for the nightmare that's going on with earthquake/tsunami damage, they owe their citizens and the rest of the world much more clarity.

#82 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:33 PM

Why?

Obviously they're not the same thing. But there are comparisons.

And in fact the "kill strategy" may very well have to be the same .. sand and concrete sarcophagus


The only comparison I see here is that there is a nuclear reactor in jeopardy of meltdown.
Isn't Japan suffering from multiple reactor temperature issues at once?
From separate plants.

Granted, the kill strategy may be the same, but I think Japan is a far more sophiscated problem than Chernobyl. On the brighter side, the Japanese reactor facilities have more safety mechanisms in place than Chernobyl did.

All I am saying is that just because Chernobyl is the best comparison we have, doing so doesn't serve this crisis up any justice.

Just my .2 cents. As worthless as they are. :wink:

#83 deadheadskier

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:36 PM

prolly worth more than 2 Yen right about now

#84 Tim the Beek

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:43 PM

prolly worth more than 2 Yen right about now


2 yen is worth 2.5 cents right now. One of the bizarro ramifications of the multiple tragedies going on in Japan right now is that their currency has strengthened.

Not good for a country trying to rebuild.

#85 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:28 PM

compare and contrast

and with Three Mile Island


Incidentally, Chernobyl .. that's Eastern Europe, not Asia, right?

The only comparison I see here is that there is a nuclear reactor in jeopardy of meltdown.
Isn't Japan suffering from multiple reactor temperature issues at once?
From separate plants.

Granted, the kill strategy may be the same, but I think Japan is a far more sophiscated problem than Chernobyl. On the brighter side, the Japanese reactor facilities have more safety mechanisms in place than Chernobyl did.

All I am saying is that just because Chernobyl is the best comparison we have, doing so doesn't serve this crisis up any justice.

Just my .2 cents. As worthless as they are. :wink:



#86 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:45 PM

Right.
I realize that they are using the Chernobyl model for compare/contrast as it isthe only one we have to go on of similar magnitude. I just am of the opinion that using it as much as is being done, down plays the events and coverage in Japan.

Yes, Chernobyl was Ukraine. But I fail to see how that impacts the compare/contrast. In fact, it seems more to my point of covering the event in Japan with less compare to the Chernobyl incident. It's simply my opinion. Nothing more.

#87 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 06:42 PM

Yes, Chernobyl was Ukraine. But I fail to see how that impacts the compare/contrast.

Oh, that's just a side note

I'm thinking now we've had meltdowns in three continents now (if Ukraine is in Europe, which is my memory of that). And yes, I know Japan is an island

#88 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 06:51 PM

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#89 Bonsai

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:29 PM

It's been really difficult to find information on how this will affect the West Coast... It doesn't seem realistic to worry about mass amounts of radiation sweeping this way, but at the same time, I may stay away from local dairy for a little while. :shocked:

I'm more worried about the cumulative latent effect on the earth as a whole. Tack it on to the many toxins already polluting our home and causing cancer, that we have no choice but to be exposed to. Yay. :bang:

#90 GoPlastic

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:32 PM

http://english.kyodo...1/03/79456.html

Japan nuke body raises accident severity level to 5 from 4

TOKYO, March 18, Kyodo

Japan's nuclear safety agency said Friday that it has raised the severity level of the nuclear accident involving the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station to 5 from 4 on a 7-level international scale.

The provisional evaluation would mean that the country's disaster has come to the same level as the Three Mile Island accident in the United States in 1979.

The highest level of 7 has only been applied to the 1986 Chernobyl catastrophe. In Japan, the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, was categorized as level 4.

Among the six reactors at the power plant, the No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 reactors that were operating at the time of the magnitude 9.0 quake halted automatically, but the cores are believed to have partially melted as they lost their cooling functions after the quake.

Given the damage to the cores and continuing radiation leak, the incident would stand at level 5 on the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale, an agency official told a press conference.

The evaluation is specifically for the incidents involving the No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 reactors.


that's great, really, but they're still 1 notch short - note the disclaimer at the end - this evaluation ignores the spent-fuel pool that's all dried up at the No. 4 reactor, and the Japanese have all but shut down updates on radiation levels in and around the plant. this is the kind of situation that demands hourly updates as a simple matter of public safety and global ramifications - they just can't seem to get it right yet.

#91 GoPlastic

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:36 PM

and the US Navy has just relocated our entire land-based carrier strike force (group 5) from Atsugi Naval Air Facility to Anderson AFB at Guam. that's an expensive move, they know something we don't.

#92 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 03:24 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn...ws-asiapacific/

#93 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 03:24 PM

and the US Navy has just relocated our entire land-based carrier strike force (group 5) from Atsugi Naval Air Facility to Anderson AFB at Guam. that's an expensive move, they know something we don't.


Of course they do. Good catch, GoP.

#94 deadheadskier

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 03:55 PM

Hearing a bit more talk that the likelyhood that they'll need to employ a sand, clay and concrete kill like they did in Chernobyl is quite possible.

While I tend to be pro-nuclear, if I were Obama, I'd order an immediate shut down of the nuclear plant north of NYC along the Hudson and possibly other high population areas as well. If there was ever a problem at the Hudson facility, over 20 million people would need to evacuate the area based upon the same guidelines the US gov't is suggesting the zone should be in Japan. You want to talk a financial crisis the world has never known? The risk is too great to operate such a facility so close to the heart of the american economy.

#95 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:00 PM

^ I'll second that as a resident of NYC. :lol:

#96 Depends

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:08 PM

Many moons ago I worked on a disaster model at Indian Point. Basically it mapped out various escape plans in case of an incident. It would take weather factors/time of day etc. Ran 24 hours. After working on that, I became very anti nuke.

#97 GoPlastic

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:38 PM

two major differences between Fukushima and Chernobyl, which will ultimately be what separates them historically:

1) Chernobyl was a catastrophic explosion which led to a massive release of radioactivity instantaneously. the Soviet government then tried to cover up the incident, compounding the problems immensely. there was literally no time to fight the good fight to prevent what happened - it happened and the rest is history.

2) Chernobyl was a single reactor failure.

the fact that the Japanese have even mentioned the idea of burying Fukushima in sand and concrete tells us that this situation is out-of-control and never coming back around. the concept of burying 4-6 nuclear reactors in sand and concrete is ludicrous, to say the least. if there's a positive to all of this, it's the fact that they'll never have to rebuild what the tsunami destroyed in a 20-mile radius of the plant...because they're about to have their very own Zone of Alienation ala Ukraine/Belarus/Russia.

#98 MeOmYo

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:47 PM

I don't understand the concept of shutting down the current nuke plants or even just one for that matter. How will that power be replaced?

#99 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:49 PM

I don't understand the concept of shutting down the current nuke plants or even just one for that matter. How will that power be replaced?


Well, if the reactors are on meltdown and radiation levals are deadly, there isnt much choice but to shut the site down.....

#100 MeOmYo

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:52 PM

Well, if the reactors are on meltdown and radiation levals are deadly, there isnt much choice but to shut the site down.....


I mean plants in the US. We do not have a means to replace that power.