Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

so, um... guns


  • Please log in to reply
264 replies to this topic

#151 PeaceFrog

PeaceFrog
  • VibeTribe
  • 8,284 posts
  • LocationWhisky a Go Go

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:02 AM

that's a real well thought out plan.

#152 Joker

Joker
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,569 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:07 AM

Posted Image

#153 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:09 AM

It's impossible, not well thought out. I'm just stabbing you in the un-log jammed eye. Sorry for partyin'.

#154 PeaceFrog

PeaceFrog
  • VibeTribe
  • 8,284 posts
  • LocationWhisky a Go Go

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:28 AM

sorry for pissin' on your parade... not

#155 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:40 AM

Um, ok. Cool nonstory, bro?

#156 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:48 AM

Interestingly, as this come around on weapon control comes around...... http://iapcar.org/?p=970


PREAMBLE
The States Parties to this Treaty.
  • Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
  • Recalling that the charter of the UN promotes the establishment and maintenance of international peace and security with the least diversion for armaments of the world’s human and economic resources;
  • Reaffirming the obligation of all State Parties to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered, in accordance with the Charter of the UN;
  • Underlining the need to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade of conventional arms and to prevent their diversion to illegal and unauthorized end use, such as terrorism and organized crime;
  • Recognizing the legitimate political, security, economic and commercial rights and interests of States in the international trade of conventional arms;
  • Reaffirming the sovereign right and responsibility of any State to regulate and control transfers of conventional arms that take place exclusively within its territory pursuant to its own legal or constitutional systems;
  • Recognizing that development, human rights and peace and security, which are three pillars of the United Nations, are interlinked and mutually reinforcing.
  • Recalling the United Nations Disarmament Commission guidelines on international arms transfers adopted by the General Assembly;
  • Noting the contribution made by the 2001 UN Programme of Action to preventing combating and eradicating the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons in all its aspects, as well as the 2001 Protocol against the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in Firearms, their parts and components and ammunition, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime;
  • Recognizing the security, social, economic and humanitarian consequences of the illicit trade in and unregulated trade of conventional arms;
  • Recognizing the challenges faced by victims of armed conflict and their need for adequate care, rehabilitation and social and economic inclusion;
  • Bearing in mind that the women and children are particularly affected in situations of conflict and armed violence;
  • Emphasizing that nothing in this treaty prevents States from exercising their right to adopt additional more rigorous measures consistent with the purpose of this Treaty;
  • Recognizing the legitimate international trade and lawful private ownership and use of conventional arms exclusively for, inter alia, recreational, cultural, historical and sporting activities for States where such ownership and use are permitted or protected by law;
  • Recognizing the active role that non-governmental organizations and civil society can play in furthering the goals and objectives of this Treaty; and
16. Emphasizing that regulation of the international trade in conventional arms should not
hamper international cooperation and legitimate trade in material, equipment and technology
for peaceful purposes;
Have agreed as follows:
Principles
Guided by the Purposes and Principles of the Charter of the United Nations, States Parties, In promoting the goals and objectives of this Treaty and implementing its provisions, shall act in accordance with the following principles:
  • The inherent rights of all States to individual or collective self-defense;
2. Settlement of individual disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered;
3. The rights and obligations of States under applicable international law, including international humanitarian law and international human rights law;
4. The responsibility of all States, in accordance with their respective international obligations, to effectively regulate and control international transfer of conventional arms as well as the primary responsibility of all States to in establishing and implementing their respective national export control systems; and
5. The necessity to implement this Treaty consistently and effectively and in a universal, objective and non-discriminatory manner.

Article 1
Goals and Objectives
Cognizant of the need to prevent and combat the diversion of conventional arms into the illicit market r to unauthorized end users through the improvement of regulation on the international trade in conventional arms,
The goals and objectives of this Treaty are:
- For States Parties to establish the highest possible common standards for regulating or improving regulation of the international trade in conventional arms;
- To prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms and their diversion to illegal and unauthorized end use;
In order to:
- Contribute to international and regional peace, security and stability;
- Avoid that the international trade in conventional arms contributes to human suffering;
- Promote cooperation, transparency and responsibility of States Parties in the trade in conventional arms, thus building confidence among States Parties,

Article 2
- A. Covered Items
- 1. This Treaty shall apply to all conventional arms within the following categories:
- a. Battle Tanks
- b. Armored combat vehicles
- c. Large-caliber Artillery systems
- d. Combat aircraft
- e. Attack helicopters
- f. Warships
- g. Missiles and missile launchers
- h. Small Arms and Light Weapons
- 2. Each State Party Shall establish and Maintain a national control system to regulate the export of munitions to the extent necessary to ensure that national controls on the export of the conventional arms covered by Paragraph a1 (a)-(h) are not circumvented by the export of munitions for those conventional arms.
- 3. Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system to regulate the export of parts and components to the extent necessary to ensure that national controls on the export of the conventional arms covered by Paragraph A1 are not circumvented by the export of parts and components of those items.
- 4. Each State Party shall establish or update, as appropriate, and maintain a national control list that shall include the items that fall within Paragraph 1 above, as defined on a national basis, based on relevant UN instruments at a minimum. Each State Party shall publish its control list to the extent permitted by national law.
- B. Covered Activities
- 1. This Treaty shall apply to those activities of the international trade in conventional arms covered in paragraph a1 above, and set out in Articles 6-10, hereafter referred to as “transfer.”
- 2. This Treaty shall not apply to the international movement of conventional arms by a State Party or its agents for its armed forces or law enforcement authorities operating outside its national territories, provided they remain under the State Party’s ownership.

Article 3
Prohibited Transfers
  • A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms within the scope of this Treaty if the transfer would violate any obligation under any measure adopted by the United Nations Security Council acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, in particular arms embargoes.
  • A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms within the scope of this Treaty if the transfer would violate its relevant international obligations, under international agreements, to which it is a Party, in particular those relating to the international transfer of, or illicit trafficking in, conventional arms.
  • A State Party shall not authorize a transfer of conventional arms within the scope of this Treaty for the purpose of facilitating the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes constituting grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, or serious violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention of 1949.
READ IT ALL AT THE LINK.

#157 wonka

wonka

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 6,629 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:53 AM

the govt will always have bigger, faster, more accurate guns (and tanks, bombs, bombers, tracking systems, battleships, etc...) than citizen Joe. Any revolt/revolution/civil war/etc... will only be won in a case where the armed forces choose to not kill Americans. It will not be won by an opposing armed citizen force in a military battle.

#158 Smiles

Smiles
  • VibeTribe
  • 1,940 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:55 AM

A world without guns makes for an excellent action movie.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1181795/
Posted Image

#159 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:56 AM

I hope you're right. Im HUGELY anti-violence. But in the event it comes to that, we beat the british government conscript army as pure freemen. So I beg to differ on bigger touogher. Unconsolidated, conscript mercenaries. It's all in the history books and nothing new.

#160 PeaceFrog

PeaceFrog
  • VibeTribe
  • 8,284 posts
  • LocationWhisky a Go Go

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:14 AM

you can't discern any differences between classes of weapons? You can't concede that some types are much more destructive than others and ought to be in a class that's unobtainable to unqualified civilians?

#161 wonka

wonka

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 6,629 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:15 AM

A world without guns makes for an excellent action movie.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1181795/
Posted Image


and an awesome Simpsons episode:Tree House of Horror II


Lisa's Nightmare

In the first of three segments, the Simpsons visit Morocco. Homer purchases a severed monkey's hand that will grant four wishes, despite the vendor's warning that the wisher will meet with grave misfortune. Back in Springfield, Maggie is granted that first wish: a new pacifier. Next, Bart wishes for the Simpsons to be rich and famous. His wish is granted, but the people quickly tire of the family's annoying antics, cheesy merchandise and celebrity treatment. Horrified by these wasteful wishes, Lisa wishes for world peace, and all countries declare peace and destroy their weapons. The aliens Kang and Kodos realize the human race is "ripe for the plucking" and, armed only with aslingshot and a club, enslave the Earth. The people angrily blame the Simpsons. Determined to make a wish that cannot be twisted, Homer demands a turkey sandwich, but the turkey turns out to be a little too dry. With all of the wishes used, he goes to throw out the paw, but his neighbor Ned Flanders asks about it. Hoping to see Flanders suffer, Homer gladly hands the paw over. Ned's first wish is to "Get rid of those awful aliens," which is accomplished when Moe chases after Kodos with a board with a nail sticking out of it, then brings them back to the flying saucer, discussing the consequence of the monkey paw to evidently "cause the human race to create a board with a nail in it so big, to doom mankind". Everyone celebrates and after Flanders wishes to "spruce up the ol' homestead", his house is converted into an opulent castle, making Homer jealous. Lisa wakes up from her nightmare and begs Bart to keep her company. Bart sleepily complies after Lisa gives him a candy necklace. Bart then has a nightmare.


#162 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:24 AM

you can't discern any differences between classes of weapons? You can't concede that some types are much more destructive than others and ought to be in a class that's unobtainable to unqualified civilians?


It's already done. You keep pushing the same button. I thought I took the light off that one?

#163 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:05 AM

So, after a quick scan of the two pages of posts since I asked my question reveals that there is not 1 person here who carries a gun on a regular basis.

The three excuses I have read are

1. My girlfriend won't let me (if you felt so strongly about it, wouldn't you do whatever it takes to protect her?)
2. I don't have a permit so it would be illegal. (if you truly wanted a permit you probably could go through the necessary training and certifications to get one)
3. I live in a rural area and don't feel the need. (mass killings do happen in rural areas as well. Here's one that has occurred recently near me at a store that I've been in several times. My army duffle I transport festival supplies in was purchased there. http://www.wlbz2.com...x?storyid=65134 )

I guess my feeling is that if I sided with many of you and felt that society would be a safer place with more people carrying concealed guns in public, then I would want to be the one carrying the gun and not hope some stranger happens to be in my vicinity when danger occurs. I'd also rather rely on myself to be the one who is properly trained and confident in my abilities to forcefully end a conflict then hope some stranger is up to the task to do it for me.

#164 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:06 AM

......and on a side note


This doesn't relate to carrying a gun in public, but incidentally, my wife and I actually have a family member who needed to use deadly force in their home in the past year. I do not know the nature of the conflict that resulted in him having to kill the other person. This is not a very close relative of ours, so all we have had to go on is what we've read in the papers. What we do know from the papers is that it was in self defense, that the man killed was an old friend who had been staying with our relatives for a week or so and that the friend had a violent past to the point that his own mother had a restraining order against him. Honestly, I don't look at the situation and think, "Thank god, they had a gun to protect themselves." I more so look at the situation and question our relatives judgment in allowing such an animal into their home.

Random violence such as the shooting in Colorado do happen far too frequently. What happens even more though is people putting themselves in positions to encounter violence by using bad judgment and surrounding themselves with violent people. I'd be curious to know what the statistic is for murders involving strangers vs. people who know each other. Maybe I'm way off, but I bet over 95+% of murders involve people who are acquainted with one another. Perhaps I'm wrong with that figure, but that belief is number 1 in why I've never felt the need nor ever will feel the need to own a gun. I trust my judgment in never putting myself in a violent situation where I wish I had a gun. If tragically my number comes up in a freak tragedy like Aurora so be it. I'm not going to live in fear and pack heat against the astronomically small chance that that is going to happen to me.

#165 PeaceFrog

PeaceFrog
  • VibeTribe
  • 8,284 posts
  • LocationWhisky a Go Go

Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:26 AM

It's already done. You keep pushing the same button. I thought I took the light off that one?


well, you thought wrong.

Up until a few posts ago you were trying to convince us that assault weapons were already banned. Once faced with the facts, you admitted you were lying.

#166 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:57 AM

:lmao:

Good lord. Should we go back through and re-examine what constitutes something as an "assault rifle" vs. none assault rifles and why the arbitrary category of such arms is rather pointless? Or can you understand that heavy weaponry is already banned and that many sport arms are also essentially "assault" categorically?

#167 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:58 AM

If I mod a .22 to have a 30 round mag, semi-automatic w/3 round burst, would that be considered an assault weapon?

#168 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:28 AM

Posted Image

Assault weapon?

Ruger 10-22 w/scope?

#169 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:30 AM

Posted Image

How about this one?

#170 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:36 AM

OK, now how about this one?

Posted Image

#171 Lazy Lightning

Lazy Lightning
  • VibeTribe
  • 14,236 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:11 PM

So the 2 main reasons I see for the right to own big-ass guns in this thread are:


1) Because other people haven them.

2) In case the govt decides to get tyrannical.


Lots of fear, there.

#172 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,465 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:20 PM

So the 2 main reasons I see for the right to own big-ass guns in this thread are:


1) Because other people haven them.

2) In case the govt decides to get tyrannical.


Lots of fear, there.


what is a big ass gun?

#173 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:37 PM

Post #169?

Is that a bigass gun?

#174 Spidergawd

Spidergawd
  • VibeTribe
  • 14,701 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

1. Could the guy in Colorado have as easily killed 12 people with a bowie knife?

2. I agree with LL about the fear. Seems like much of this to-do stems from people being scared shitless of some "boogie man". I choose to not live in fear.

#175 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:56 PM

Being prepared to defend yourself is not fear, it's preparedness.

I just dont see any point in disarming some so that it is favorable for others, while there are still yet others out there who have firearms. Are you sure that fear is not part of the anti-gun crowds platform?

#176 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,465 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

it's easy to fear something when you do not own, use or understand it.

my guess is he could not have killed 12 with a bowie knife, but I believe you are under the assumption that if they are illegal he could not have obtained one. also, there are numerous other options other than an AK or bowie knife.

the assertion that gun owners live a life of fear is ridiculous or maybe I'm interpreting that wrong.

from the local paper this morning. they charge a 14 year old kid. I say charge the grandfather. gun ownership is a responsibility as well as a right.


COOPERSTOWN -- A 14-year-old Morris boy has been charged with juvenile delinquency after accidentally firing a high-powered hunting rifle and damaging a nearby Otsego County-owned dump truck, authorities reported Wednesday.

No injuries resulted from the errant shot fired from a Unadilla home July 12, Otsego County Sheriff's Department Investigator Jason Munson said.

The youth is not being identified because he is a minor, Munson noted.

Had the teen been two years older, he would have been charged with second-degree reckless endangerment, Munson said.

A county highway worker had been standing near the parked dump truck at the time of the incident, Munson said.

The shot was fired from inside a residence off county Highway 4.

The gun is owned by the youth's grandfather, he said.

Immediately after firing the gun, the boy walked to the truck to make sure no one was injured, he noted.

Munson said the investigation that resulted included consultation with state Department of Environmental Conservation Officer Tim Card as well as with the county attorney's office.

The bullet fragmented after striking the truck's hood, he said.

After the shot was fired, the boy "seemed nervous and upset," he said. "There was definitely no intent."

The youth and his mother have been given appearance tickets directing them to report to the county Probation Department on Tuesday.

http://thedailystar....idental-gunshot

#177 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

For the record just so I'm clear on my position regarding "disarming", I didn't say get rid of all guns. If people want to have shotguns or rifles in their homes or their place of business, I have no problem with that. People should have every right to protect themselves on their property. And by all means if you think an "Arab Spring" is on the way here in the US, build your bunker and load up with what you feel you need to make you and your family feel safe. :bolt: :lol:

That said, if you want to have guns to do so, I think major background checks need to be carried out to make sure those who are arming themselves are mentally stable. That does not happen right now.

I just would rather see it illegal for all but law enforcement to carry guns in public. This pertains to on or off duty officials. Truthfully, most of the time I read about crime being thwarted in action, it's usually an off duty cop, security guard, member of the military etc. That's who I want out there in the event protection is needed and a uniformed officer is unavailable. Not some good ole boy who goes to GI Joe camp one weekend a year.

#178 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

That said, if you want to have guns to do so, I think major background checks need to be carried out to make sure those who are arming themselves are mentally stable. That does not happen right now.



it wouldn't have changed the outcome of last weeks atrocity either. The kid was considered a model student. Minus any instabilities. I dont see how it can make these situations go away or curtail them at all. Can't get the gun from teh shop? Get it through the black market then!

#179 Lazy Lightning

Lazy Lightning
  • VibeTribe
  • 14,236 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:22 PM

it's easy to fear something when you do not own, use or understand it.


That isn't the fear to which JP and I are referring. Re-read my post.

I have used and understood guns. I still choose not to own one, tho.

As stated earlier, I might look at having a shotgun when we move farther into a remote area, but I certainly do not feel the need in our current living arrangements. And certainly not b/c of a fear of the govt or just b/c everyone else has one.

#180 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,465 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:28 PM

I understand that is not the fear you are referring to. re-read my post

when you make comments like, "So the 2 main reasons I see for the right to own big-ass guns in this thread are", I don't really think you do understand them.

#181 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:44 PM

That said, if you want to have guns to do so, I think major background checks need to be carried out to make sure those who are arming themselves are mentally stable. That does not happen right now.



it wouldn't have changed the outcome of last weeks atrocity either. The kid was considered a model student. Minus any instabilities. I dont see how it can make these situations go away or curtail them at all. Can't get the gun from teh shop? Get it through the black market then!


correct, it wouldn't have prevented last weeks situation. Truthfully probably nothing would. Doesn't mean I don't think our nation has a gun problem that can be improved upon.

Regarding black market gun purchases, I think they can be reduced. I don't think it could ever come close to going away, but I do think people found in possession of illegal guns should face huge penalties; like a year in jail for first offense. It might give some of these inner city kids something to think about before joining the local chapter of the Latin Kings.

#182 Lazy Lightning

Lazy Lightning
  • VibeTribe
  • 14,236 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:52 PM

Those are the two main reasons I have distilled from numerous posts in this thread. That it is good to have a gun b/c other people do and you *might* need to protect yourself from those other people, and that the govt is one day going to overthrow the people (b/c that hasn't already happened?! :lol:) and again, a gun is going to save the day in that scenario. (Somehow? I don't get it, but it's the same reason my friend gave me for having all those guns that he taught me to shoot with down in California. Don't ask me to elaborate on how his 40 guns are going to save the day from the govt, I just had fun shootin' them! :lol:)

I didn't post anything about the incident in Colorado. I didn't say that gun owners live a life of fear. I said that owning a gun for the aforementioned reasons is all about fear. Fear that someone else has a gun and you don't, fear that the govt is one day gonna come and take away all that you own - which is laughable to me, b/c really, they have pretty much already done that to everyone.

#183 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

In most states, possession of illegal or unregistered firearms already carry a jail time sentence. Along with the inability to properly own firearms after a conviction. It's a felony at the absolute least I believe except in Texas.

#184 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

In most states, possession of illegal or unregistered firearms already carry a jail time sentence. Along with the inability to properly own firearms after a conviction. It's a felony at the absolute least I believe except in Texas.


Not in New Hampshire. Guns are not registered in New Hampshire and the only permit required in the state is for carrying a concealed handgun. Anyone with a drivers license can buy a gun. The only time a permit is needed to buy a gun is for purchase of a handgun in a private sale, but there is a loop hole in that law where by the transaction can legally occur if the buyer is "personally known" to the seller.

Illegal possession is only for convicted felons and the first offense penalty for a felon possessing a firearm is a misdemeanor.

#185 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,068 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

Lola, I don't think my position is any more fearful than buying insurance, or owning a first aid kit, or anything else we might own and hope never to have to use.

I view it as prudent. There's a long and infamous history of governments which disarm their citizens going on to treat them very, very poorly.

#186 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,068 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:20 PM

DHS,

I have no problem at all with harsh penalties for violent felons who are caught with firearms.

#187 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,465 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:21 PM

DHS,

I have no problem at all with harsh penalties for violent felons who are caught with firearms.


agreed

#188 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:26 PM

DHS,

I have no problem at all with harsh penalties for violent felons who are caught with firearms.


There are people all over the country in gangs that own guns who have not committed a violent crime.......yet. You don't think this is a problem?

I personally think all guns should be registered and possession of an unregistered gun whether by a person with a history of violence or not should face a steep penalty.

#189 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:29 PM

Not in New Hampshire. Guns are not registered in New Hampshire and the only permit required in the state is for carrying a concealed handgun. Anyone with a drivers license can buy a gun. The only time a permit is needed to buy a gun is for purchase of a handgun in a private sale, but there is a loop hole in that law where by the transaction can legally occur if the buyer is "personally known" to the seller.

Illegal possession is only for convicted felons and the first offense penalty for a felon possessing a firearm is a misdemeanor.


Thanks. I did not know that about NH.

Let's look now at NH gun related violent crimes.

http://www.guardian....-crime-us-state

Population of NH

http://quickfacts.ce...ates/33000.html


It appears for a state with such lax gun laws, there gun related crime is quite a bit lower than some of the Northeastern counterparts. Correlation my not imply causation, i will concede to that. But it seems for such an easy way to obtain them, if control laws were effective in curtailing gun related crimes, NH would be right up there in the highest brackets of gun crime. :dunno:

#190 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,068 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:32 PM

I think it's a problem. I think that, given my primary reason for believing in gun ownership, that the government having lists of who owns guns is a potentially bigger problem.

Doubt we're going to agree. It doesn't surprise me, but I love the civility with which this discussion is taking place.

You all rock!

#191 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:40 PM

Thanks. I did not know that about NH.

Let's look now at NH gun related violent crimes.

http://www.guardian....-crime-us-state

Population of NH

http://quickfacts.ce...ates/33000.html


It appears for a state with such lax gun laws, there gun related crime is quite a bit lower than some of the Northeastern counterparts. Correlation my not imply causation, i will concede to that. But it seems for such an easy way to obtain them, if control laws were effective in curtailing gun related crimes, NH would be right up there in the highest brackets of gun crime. :dunno:


NH is largely rural. It also has the highest median income in the US. It would seem to me areas where gun violence is a problem are largely urban and impoverished areas; i.e. the Camdens, Detroits etc.

#192 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,221 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

maybe the solution to gun crime is to give out more shit tickets in the poor cities

:rolling:

#193 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,465 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

:facepalm:

:lol:

#194 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,068 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:56 PM

maybe the solution to gun crime is to give out more shit tickets in the poor cities

:rolling:


:mrgreen:

Separate hot button issue, but I reckon drug law reformation/legalization is a major solution to the type of gun crime which occurs in poor cities and elsewhere...

#195 bitrush

bitrush
  • VibeTribe
  • 273 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

It would seem to me areas where gun violence is a problem are largely urban and impoverished areas; i.e. the Camdens, Detroits etc.

Ironically, they have the strictest gun laws...discuss.

#196 JBetty

JBetty
  • VibeTribe
  • 19,679 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:01 PM

Ironically, they have the strictest gun laws...discuss.



Because it's not about the guns or the laws or the restrictions.
It's about the macho violent mentality that too many kids are growing up with thinking it's normal and acceptable behavior.

#197 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,544 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:02 PM

Or the cultural aspects that make typical voluntary exchange dangerous and thus, prone to violent outbreaks.

#198 bitrush

bitrush
  • VibeTribe
  • 273 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:03 PM

The problem with kids today are their parents!

#199 JBetty

JBetty
  • VibeTribe
  • 19,679 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:05 PM

Yup, and their parents' parents.
It's a vicious cycle and the question is how to break it?

#200 Joker

Joker
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,569 posts

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:22 PM

Yup, and their parents' parents.
It's a vicious cycle and the question is how to break it?

Shoot the mother fuckers