When people judge you without knowing the full situation?

[Bonsai]

I HAVE to get this off my chest.

I seem to find myself in this situation over and over again, where I feel I'm being judged by guy friends or acquaintances for how I act or have acted in a relationship.

How do you handle it when people (especially guys or guy friends) judge your behavior as a female in your interactaction with other guys? It seems like a "guy code" type of thing, where they assume based on their limited knowledge of the situation, that you are taking or have taken advantage of or treated unfairly, a guy you are or were in a relationship with. And they feel the need to make comments to you about it.

I feel like I'm always "the bad guy" in these situations, and end up being cornered into justifying my behavior when I know I've done nothing wrong. I can usually even understand why the guy friend might see it the way they see it, but the more I try to explain where I'm actually coming from, the more I'm misunderstood. In general lately, I feel completely and totally misunderstood by most people and it's just making me feel really shitty. I feel like I'm being viewed as some sort of heartless man-eating bitch who seduces guys and break their hearts. This is not my intention AT ALL. Any guy who enters into a relationship with me is a big boy who makes the choice himself knowing it may not work out. Why is all the blame on me when it doesn't work out, just because I'm the one who ended it? Why is there always an assumption of wrongdoing on my part?!! :rolleyes:

[TEO]

Does it really matter what others think, if you know in your own heart that you did nothing wrong? Be confdent in your knowingness, and as you are aware, it is not mandatory to explain your personal actions to anyone, other than yourself.

I grew up with enough judgement, hence it is not something I will tolerate in friendships.

Be confident & strong. :heart:

[little frog]

i just agree that i'm a cold hearted bitch .. clearly the men saying this stupid shit aren't man enough for you, so they're lashing out trying to feel 'man enough' to 'confront' a woman they know they aren't good enough for, or more accurately, they could never land in a million years.

i'd take that as a compliment .. and i'd turn the tables on them and tell them they should spend their time with women that don't have any backbone, since that's all they can handle. :)

[Bonsai]

Does it really matter what others think, if you know in your own heart that you did nothing wrong? Be confdent in your knowingness, and as you are aware, it is not mandatory to explain your personal actions to anyone, other than yourself.

I grew up with enough judgement, hence it is not something I will tolerate in friendships.

Be confident & strong. :heart:

The person who is doing the judging is more of an ancillary person hanging out with actual friends, not the friends themselves. I understand intellectually that it doesn't matter what others think, but I'm having a really hard time internalizing that understanding into my feelings.

I'm having difficulty feeling confident and strong in my current situation. There are times when you just want to feel accepted and understood, and when you feel that need really strongly, and you've been through a lot and feel you deserve it, yet you feel all you are getting is judgement instead, it's really hard to feel strong. Quite frankly I'm pretty sick of being the one who always has to put on a strong front. I'm quite the opposite of heartless and I'm dealing with my own pain over the situation too.

[Bonsai]

i just agree that i'm a cold hearted bitch .. clearly the men saying this stupid shit aren't man enough for you, so they're lashing out trying to feel 'man enough' to 'confront' a woman they know they aren't good enough for, or more accurately, they could never land in a million years.

i'd take that as a compliment .. and i'd turn the tables on them and tell them they should spend their time with women that don't have any backbone, since that's all they can handle. :)

I pretty much did agree... that seemed to make it worse. Apparently I should have told them how I really feel about the situation. I've always felt like it's important not to show vulnerability because people take advantage of it, but maybe that's why people are misunderstanding where I'm coming from.

I do think this person was probably doing it out of insecurity and bitterness over past experiences with women, but it still stings. I'm pretty sure it doesn't help that this is not the first time I've been judged in this way (as pretty much everyone on this board is aware - heh.)

[TEO]

Yep, and as a strong woman you are apt to encounter a lot of that.

Also, it never hurts to answer a question or judgement with a question.
"I have always found it fascinating how perceptions of actions, vary based
on the sex of the parties involved. If I were a man, how would your perception of such and such situation be altered?"

Other than that, a smile and nod, as if you see what a dumbass the person is, but are not going to say anything is often a sweet tool.

[Bonsai]

Yep, and as a strong woman you are apt to encounter a lot of that.

Also, it never hurts to answer a question or judgement with a question.
"I have always found it fascinating how perceptions of actions, vary based
on the sex of the parties involved. If I were a man, how would your perception of such and such situation be altered?"

Other than that, a smile and nod, as if you see what a dumbass the person is, but are not going to say anything is often a sweet tool.

I don't feel like a strong woman right now, but thank you. :heart:

Very good ideas.

I actually didn't respond at all to the harshest of suggestions I received. I did not even acknowledge it. At first I thought that might suggest guilt on my part, but perhaps it was actually the best reaction I could have had.

I feel I may confront the person full on if it continues. And put them on the spot to ask them to define exactly what their problem with me is. Since I've been somewhat demure in general up to this point, it would probably take them by suprise enough to drive home the point to them and others.

[little frog]

I pretty much did agree... that seemed to make it worse. Apparently I should have told them how I really feel about the situation. I've always felt like it's important not to show vulnerability because people take advantage of it, but maybe that's why people are misunderstanding where I'm coming from.

I do think this person was probably doing it out of insecurity and bitterness over past experiences with women, but it still stings. I'm pretty sure it doesn't help that this is not the first time I've been judged in this way (as pretty much everyone on this board is aware - heh.)

well .. everything that TEO said stands true .. and from my own personal experiences with this exact situation, i can spot an insecure loser the moment he opens his bitter mouth and starts to harp on my behavior. this is my cue to cut open the rest of the idiots wounds and pour salt in them .. it might hurt but think of all that bacteria you're killing in there. :)

in all truthfulness, when you internalize this sort of attack as you're doing now, you're only feeding your own sense of insecurity as well as sending the message to the loser that he's right.

if not for yourself, you need to put this guy in his place, or he'll keep doing this shit to every strong women he meets. he's trying to make himself feel like a man, period. don't own his issues, ever ever ever ever ... infinity.

[TEO]

I love the sneak attacks!

[little frog]

also .. get some background on the dude .. find out who he's really angry and bitter at, and i can assure you, it isn't you.

[Bonsai]

well .. everything that TEO said stands true .. and from my own personal experiences with this exact situation, i can spot an insecure loser the moment he opens his bitter mouth and starts to harp on my behavior. this is my cue to cut open the rest of the idiots wounds and pour salt in them .. it might hurt but think of all that bacteria you're killing in there. :)

in all truthfulness, when you internalize this sort of attack as you're doing now, you're only feeding your own sense of insecurity as well as sending the message to the loser that he's right.

if not for yourself, you need to put this guy in his place, or he'll keep doing this shit to every strong women he meets. he's trying to make himself feel like a man, period. don't own his issues, ever ever ever ever ... infinity.

You're totally right that I shouldn't internalize his issues. In normal circumstances, this wouldn't bother me as much, but I'm in a new place where I know hardly anyone and just want to feel comfortable and accepted, so I'm unusually vulnerable to it. I knew that talking about it with other women would help me build my internal defense against it, but it was still almost impossible for me to even post this here in the first place. :undecided:

[Bonsai]

I love the sneak attacks!

And, I have observed, you can be quite skilled at them. :devil:

[Bonsai]

also .. get some background on the dude .. find out who he's really angry and bitter at, and i can assure you, it isn't you.

This is part of my plan, if it continues, as well.

[Ginger Snap]

I dealt with this problem for a long part of my last relationship. Our friends would get half of a story and then judge me accordingly. I sort of felt like I didn't need to defend my actions and that I was taking the higher road by not spilling my side of it.

I don't know, two things happened. A couple of my friends continued to view me however it is they viewed me. A couple realized there are always two sides to every story. Still, it was pretty painful.

Ultimately what I learned is that he just didn't love me right or respect me and cherish me to talk about tme in a true balanced way. Faults and strengths. He needed to make me out to be crazy to justify his behaviors.

But I guess my situation is different in that the problm with outside folks judging stemmed from an unhealthy realationship to begin with.

And it is difficult to reconcile those feelings of knowing you are being a strong woman, and those judgements. I think it just takes practice in knowing, and then the feeling will show itself in time.

[Bonsai]

I dealt with this problem for a long part of my last relationship. Our friends would get half of a story and then judge me accordingly. I sort of felt like I didn't need to defend my actions and that I was taking the higher road by not spilling my side of it.

I don't know, two things happened. A couple of my friends continued to view me however it is they viewed me. A couple realized there are always two sides to every story. Still, it was pretty painful.

Ultimately what I learned is that he just didn't love me right or respect me and cherish me to talk about tme in a true balanced way. Faults and strengths. He needed to make me out to be crazy to justify his behaviors.

But I guess my situation is different in that the problm with outside folks judging stemmed from an unhealthy realationship to begin with.

And it is difficult to reconcile those feelings of knowing you are being a strong woman, and those judgements. I think it just takes practice in knowing, and then the feeling will show itself in time.

Ugh, that sounds like it sucked even more than my situation. :heart: The person I was in a relationship with was not involved at all in my situation. The judgement is coming from someone who has really only heard my "side" yet assumed the defense from the other person's side. I was trying to make light of the situation as a whole because I don't know this person that well, and apparently it came off as insensitive and heartless instead of light-hearted. It hurts twice as bad because I am actually going through a lot of pain over the situation, and trying to put on a light-hearted and strong front to everyone because I don't want anyone to have to hear me bitch and moan about the issues I'm going through.

[Ginger Snap]

i just agree that i'm a cold hearted bitch .. clearly the men saying this stupid shit aren't man enough for you, so they're lashing out trying to feel 'man enough' to 'confront' a woman they know they aren't good enough for, or more accurately, they could never land in a million years.

i'd take that as a compliment .. and i'd turn the tables on them and tell them they should spend their time with women that don't have any backbone, since that's all they can handle. :)

I call this embracing my inner bitch. And frankly, she laid dormant for too long. :lol:

[TEO]

(((Bonsai))) :heart:

[Bonsai]

Thank you everyone, for your insights and sympathy on this. :heart:

[Ginger Snap]

:smile:

[Jersey Thug]

i am sorry you're hurting, and being hurt by people who have no stake in your relationship whatsoever :heart:

among others, i lost my best friend of 14 years/maid of honor in my divorce...her husband was an old friend and fraternity brother of my husband's, and when he (being the angry, judgemental, bitter man he is) felt it necessary to choose sides though neither of us desired that, she of course went right along with him...under the guise of "just not knowing what to say to me right now". :eyeroll:

we haven't spoken since the night he and i went over to tell them of our breakup, and i've long since told my ex that she should not bother contacting me even if she does one day find her words. i don't need fair weather friends who desert you when you need them most.

i know you're in a new place and trying to carve out a life for yourself there. but i would ask myself why you're seeking the approval of someone who can't be there for you when you need them most. i found for myself that it was better to be a little lonely, locally, for a while than to deal with pseudo-friendships for a moment longer. if i was already doing some spring cleaning of my life anyway, i figured it should be a clean sweep of all that was fake, forced or otherwise just not working for me anymore.

best wishes, Bonsai :)

[Drop_o_Rain]

It makes sense that it hurts a little worse when someone uses your own words against you. It seems as though in trying to protect your vulnerabilities, you ended up getting hurt again.

I am sorry that you are hurting over this relationship and I am sorry that someone is only hearing what he wants to hear and making a judgment against you. Hang in there doll. Much love to you :heart:

We are always here for you!

[lost-in-boston]

Ok so I read your post, and no one elses (bc I'm selfish like that :funny1: )

But Meg, you have to ask yourself...
If a friend (guy or girl) isn't giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that your intentions are cruel or whatever, are they really your friend??

I have issues w/ my friends, close friends, not knowing me better than that. When I'm judged on something I say, that could be taken 2 ways, they think the worst way is how I meant it. My thought on this is "if you really know me and love me the way you say you do, then you wouldn't think that my intentions are bad or negative".

The other side of the coin, everyone is always going to have their own opinions. You can choose to care, and let it eat away at you. OR you can choose to say "fuck em" and not give a shit what they think. :wink: (which is hard at first, but as you practice it more, its actually fun to let other people think what they want and not let it invade your universe).

Either way....I think you should rethink your friendship w/ this person(these people). IF they're constantly thinking the worst of you, do you want them in your life??
Personally, I wouldn't and have cut people out for such behavior.

At the end of the day YOU know your intentions...and really, thats all that matters.
:heart:

but vent away....
and I miss your face :)

[KrisNYG]

I would recommend that you read the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. It really puts judgment in it's place. I have been meaning to read it again too.

Best of luck. :heart:

[vinandtonic]

{{{Bonsai}}} :heart:

[sarah b.]

chin up, bonsai. some guys will always assume the worst of a woman, due to issues of their own. thug makes a real good point about being solo vs. seeking acceptance in poor quarters, and the four agreements is definitely a good book.
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[little frog]

i know you're in a new place and trying to carve out a life for yourself there. but i would ask myself why you're seeking the approval of someone who can't be there for you when you need them most. i found for myself that it was better to be a little lonely, locally, for a while than to deal with pseudo-friendships for a moment longer. if i was already doing some spring cleaning of my life anyway, i figured it should be a clean sweep of all that was fake, forced or otherwise just not working for me anymore.



co-sign .. of course. i love how you said this

[Bonsai]

i am sorry you're hurting, and being hurt by people who have no stake in your relationship whatsoever :heart:

among others, i lost my best friend of 14 years/maid of honor in my divorce...her husband was an old friend and fraternity brother of my husband's, and when he (being the angry, judgemental, bitter man he is) felt it necessary to choose sides though neither of us desired that, she of course went right along with him...under the guise of "just not knowing what to say to me right now". :eyeroll:

we haven't spoken since the night he and i went over to tell them of our breakup, and i've long since told my ex that she should not bother contacting me even if she does one day find her words. i don't need fair weather friends who desert you when you need them most.

i know you're in a new place and trying to carve out a life for yourself there. but i would ask myself why you're seeking the approval of someone who can't be there for you when you need them most. i found for myself that it was better to be a little lonely, locally, for a while than to deal with pseudo-friendships for a moment longer. if i was already doing some spring cleaning of my life anyway, i figured it should be a clean sweep of all that was fake, forced or otherwise just not working for me anymore.

best wishes, Bonsai :)

Wow, sounds like you went through this on a much bigger, much worse scale. :( :heart: I can't imagine how tough that must have been. It sounds like you made the right decision cutting your ex-friend out of your life.

I don't know the person who's doing the judging very well at all, and would definitely not call him a friend. He is more of an acquaintance who happens to be around an actual friend all the time when I hang out with them. :rolleyes:

It's not so much that I was seeking his acceptance, more that I just expected it, I guess. He was sort of incidentally around and the judgement just came out of blue when I hadn't even brought the issue up, and it caught me off guard.

I feel a lot better about all of this today after talking it through and sleeping on it. I realize that, when this particular instance occurred recently, I was vulnerable for so many reasons (recently broken up and conflicted and in pain over it, sleepless from packing all my shit and moving in 3 days, just started a new job, etc.) It's unfortunate that I didn't feel able to stand up for myself due to exhaustion and resulting emotional vulnerability. I decided I'm not going to let this person's issues keep me from hanging out with my friend just because he's always around. My skin toward him has thickened, and I'll just be ambivalent toward him now. If his attitude toward me changes for the positive as a result, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, because there's no sense in holding a grudge. But I certainly don't respect him much anymore.

[Bonsai]

I would recommend that you read the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. It really puts judgment in it's place. I have been meaning to read it again too.

Best of luck. :heart:

Thanks! I'll definitely look into this.

[Bonsai]

Ok so I read your post, and no one elses (bc I'm selfish like that :funny1: )

But Meg, you have to ask yourself...
If a friend (guy or girl) isn't giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that your intentions are cruel or whatever, are they really your friend??

I have issues w/ my friends, close friends, not knowing me better than that. When I'm judged on something I say, that could be taken 2 ways, they think the worst way is how I meant it. My thought on this is "if you really know me and love me the way you say you do, then you wouldn't think that my intentions are bad or negative".

The other side of the coin, everyone is always going to have their own opinions. You can choose to care, and let it eat away at you. OR you can choose to say "fuck em" and not give a shit what they think. :wink: (which is hard at first, but as you practice it more, its actually fun to let other people think what they want and not let it invade your universe).

Either way....I think you should rethink your friendship w/ this person(these people). IF they're constantly thinking the worst of you, do you want them in your life??
Personally, I wouldn't and have cut people out for such behavior.

At the end of the day YOU know your intentions...and really, thats all that matters.
:heart:

but vent away....
and I miss your face :)

All good points. I know you only read my original post, but later I clarified that this was not coming from a close friend, just a random person who is always around a friend. I would definitely not be hanging out with them otherwise. Only time will tell if this was a one-time thing or if it's how this person acts on a regular basis.

Thanks. I miss your face too. :wink:

[sarah b.]

(recently broken up and conflicted and in pain over it, sleepless from packing all my shit and moving in 3 days, just started a new job, etc.)

That whole pack and move/new job/no sleep thing totally sucks. Best wishes, Bonsai. :heart: May the conflict resolve and the pain heal ASAP.

[TEO]

Feel with your head, think with your heart. :heart:

[little frog]

he's probably got a mad crush on you :V:

[lil pixi]

i just agree that i'm a cold hearted bitch .. clearly the men saying this stupid shit aren't man enough for you, so they're lashing out trying to feel 'man enough' to 'confront' a woman they know they aren't good enough for, or more accurately, they could never land in a million years.

i'd take that as a compliment .. and i'd turn the tables on them and tell them they should spend their time with women that don't have any backbone, since that's all they can handle. :)

I :heart: this woman!

F*ck em'. Be strong, Meg. Ignore em'. You know who you are. You know what you want & aren't afraid to go for it & move on. Admirable if anything. Too many ppl stay in relationships they're not happy in.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

I went through that quite a bit when I first moved over here (and still do go through it to some extent). It's all about having a thick skin (which is easier said than done) and not caring what others think...which is kind of hard when you are trying to settle and establish yourself in a new place. I just always remind myself that if people are talking about me and noticing what I am or am not doing then my life must be waaaayyyy more exciting than theirs. ...and it's always fun to give them something to talk about ! :devil:

[safireblues]

I have these same moments you are having--my husband's best friend from growing up and I have had some pretty wicked misunderstandings over the years. It can be frustrating but you can't let it get to you.

People judge us for all sorts of reasons. The reason it gets to us is if we judge ourselves for the same reason. Try to find what's true in what he's saying, but also, what's not true. Nothing is ever black and white, all one person's fault or all the other's. Sounds like this guy is probably young and sees things in simple terms, you're a bitch, you hurt a guy.

Even moreso, and this is ESPECIALLY true of me, we put our own spin on life because of our own experiences.

Because you are in a vulnerable place (soooo been in your exact position ini the same city), realize that this is an opportunity to insulate yourself and work on you. Let me know if you need help, I still know a few good peeps out there who could give you a hand.

((((BONSAI))))

[Bonsai]

Feel with your head, think with your heart. :heart:

Tricky! I'm trying... not allowing the world I've carved out for myself to be permeated until I figure it out.

[Bonsai]

he's probably got a mad crush on you :V:


Heh. :pimp: :wink:

Saw him this past weekend and it was all good. Also observed that he judges his guy friends for other things... it's part of his personality to be judgemental, I guess. Which I can understand, he may be trying to work on, as I have been there in the past. I think the situation is resolved and there are no hard feelings.

[Bonsai]

I have these same moments you are having--my husband's best friend from growing up and I have had some pretty wicked misunderstandings over the years. It can be frustrating but you can't let it get to you.

People judge us for all sorts of reasons. The reason it gets to us is if we judge ourselves for the same reason. Try to find what's true in what he's saying, but also, what's not true. Nothing is ever black and white, all one person's fault or all the other's. Sounds like this guy is probably young and sees things in simple terms, you're a bitch, you hurt a guy.

Even moreso, and this is ESPECIALLY true of me, we put our own spin on life because of our own experiences.

Because you are in a vulnerable place (soooo been in your exact position ini the same city), realize that this is an opportunity to insulate yourself and work on you. Let me know if you need help, I still know a few good peeps out there who could give you a hand.

((((BONSAI))))

Thanks. :heart:

I know that the judgement was more reflective of what is going on with him, and his life, than of me. In retrospect I'm able to see how my own guilt resulted in me allowing myself to internalize it. I feel guilty because I absolutely hate that I've caused pain. But the bottom line is that it would have been worse if continued. Apparently I'm not capable of not causing pain right now for those who have emotional expectations of me, so it seems the only thing to do is just sever myself from all expectations and work on figuring out why that is.

I'm doing okay, but I'm always open to good people. : )

[Bonsai]

I :heart: this woman!

F*ck em'. Be strong, Meg. Ignore em'. You know who you are. You know what you want & aren't afraid to go for it & move on. Admirable if anything. Too many ppl stay in relationships they're not happy in.

Thanks. :wink:

[Misha]

I've had similar circumstances 2 times in my life and can sympathize with you so much. First, in my early 20s, I began a relationship with another woman (it lasted 4 years). Most of my friends and family were pretty judgemental and assumed that my then girlfriend had somehow "converted" me. It hurt deeply because when I tried to explain how I really felt, I was judged and treated like I was a young, confused person who was easily manipulated. It's been almost 20 years and when I think Iof how judgemental everyone was, I still get angry (ironically, my former girlfriend is now one of my best friends and is very close to my whole family).

Then, when I started seeing Howie, his family wanted NOTHING to do with me for the first 8 years of our relationship--this was because I am 10 years older than him, a "former" lesbian and I'm white. They finally began to accept me after we got engaged and also when they began to get to know me as a person, not an olderwomanlesbianhonkie! I just always felt so misunderstood by them and to this day I have unresolved issues about how they rejected me and how I was judged so harshly before they even gave me a chance.

Hang in there Bonsai:heart:

[TEO]

(((Misha))) :heart:
Before they even knew you...How people can judge, that which they do not know makes no sense, yet happens all too often.

[safireblues]

olderwomanlesbianhonkie: kate's new favorite label.