Honest question for atheists [Archive]

Drop_o_Rain

02-20-2009, 03:06 PM

Thats ok. I am glad you butted in...
I am trying to understand.. and I know that people are brought up that way...
but... why do they follow that??

I just think that even if I was brought up to treat people the way I would want to be treated, without the repercussions of not going to heaven or needing to be reincarnated a million more times, or SOMETHING...
then I would be more likely to do things that aren't as friendly or "good" because, well... why not.

PeaceFrog

02-20-2009, 03:07 PM

I think it's a good question.

I don't really define my God in the way most Christian/Jewish/Muslim religions do. I don't think those religions are exactly right. I don't think they're exactly wrong, either.

I do believe in something greater than myself. I think that does motivate me to try and be a good person, in the way I define what a good person is. My personal definition of "good person" is probably based on the Christian belief, since that is how I was raised.

syd_25

02-20-2009, 03:08 PM

Drop_o_Rain

02-20-2009, 03:09 PM

ok... so, i guess that is something that i hadn't considered. Atheists may believe in something... just not God...
and then it all makes sense to me, honestly.

There are people who believe that you die and that's it, right? Are they called atheists, as well?

Drop_o_Rain

02-20-2009, 03:10 PM

Well, there are "repercussions". It you do not treat people kindly and with respect, you in turn will not be treated kindly and with respect. And I don't know too many people who would wish that upon themselves.

If I treat the people I see on a daily basis badly, then that would be true. But if I wasn't kind to a stranger, then that might not actually be truth.

PeaceFrog

02-20-2009, 03:14 PM

I don't consider myself atheist, though, at all so I really can't speak for them.

I think the real core of my being is so based on Christianity, that there's no way I could ever change it... it's just too much of a paradigm shift for me to grasp.

I think this is probably true for most people. Even if they don't believe in the God they were raised to believe, they still hold true to most of the values. Just my guess.

Is there anyone whose parents raised them to be atheist? That's who I'm really interested in hearing from.

Elphaba

02-20-2009, 03:58 PM

Why are you nice, charitable, good?

I wanted to ask in that other thread, but that day things were getting too crazy and emotional. Now that the storm has passed, I sincerely wonder why people who don't believe in God take the time to be good?

I honestly don't think that I would be the person that I am today without believing in God.

whether a person believes in no god, the god you're talking about, some other god, many gods or goddesses as the case may be - has nothing to do with being a good person or not.

your experience is not everyone's experience. for example, hitler did believe in god - he was a christian. ghandi was a hindu, considered a great person, the hindu religion varies greatly with many different gods to versions of athiesm.

SunRa

02-20-2009, 04:51 PM

first, i'd like to ask you a question. why wouldn't you be as good if you didn't believe in god?
in other words... are you only 'good' because you think someone's watching you? or because you fear punishment?

in my opinion, that's not a 'good' person at all. it's kinda like george costanza only tipping the pizza guy if he sees him doing it.

you don't need an imaginary overseer to be a good person.

staggerlee024

02-20-2009, 05:09 PM

Gandhi believed in god very strongly. His belief in god was the sole thing that motivated him to do what he did.

He was even introduced to and studied Jesus from Leo Tolstoy.

But getting back to the original question, it was one I could not answer when I was an atheist. I read "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. Then I read it again. And I could not answer it.

SunRa

02-20-2009, 05:11 PM

answer mine then.

"are you only 'good' because you think someone's watching you? or because you fear punishment?"

staggerlee024

02-20-2009, 05:16 PM

staggerlee024

02-20-2009, 05:17 PM

not even a little bit

SunRa

02-20-2009, 05:19 PM

same here. which is why i don't understand the OP's question.

staggerlee024

02-20-2009, 05:23 PM

it is a very valid question. one that i spent a very long time thinking about.

musicmomma

02-20-2009, 05:30 PM

DoR just because someone doesn't believe in g-d does NOT mean they have no morals. i am actually kinda shocked that you even had to ask that question. g-d should NOT be the only reason you do the right thing... because you are scared of g-d? to me, that would mean that you really don't care about anyone else, only you and if you will be redeemed and go to heaven, correct? :huh:

staggerlee024

02-20-2009, 05:31 PM

My uniform experience has convinced me that there is no other God than Truth. And if every page of the chapters does not proclaim to the reader that the only means for the realization of truth is Ahimsa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahimsa), I shall deem all my labour in writing these chapters to have been in vain. And, even though my efforts in this behalf may prove fruitless, let the readers know that the vehicle, not the great principle is at fault. After all, however sincere my strivings after Ahimsa may have been, they have still be imperfect and inadequate. The little fleeting glimpses, therefore, that I have been able to have of Truth can hardly conve an idea of the indescribable lustre of Truth, a million times more intense that of the sun we daily see with our eyes. In fact what I have caught is only the faintest glimmer of that mighty effulgence. But this much I can say with assurance, as a result of all my experiments, that a perfect vision of Truth can only follow a complete realization of Ahimsa.

To see the universal and all-pervading spirit of Truth face to face one must be able to love the meanest of creations as oneself. And a man who aspires after that cannot afford to keep out of any field of life. That is why my devotion to Truth has drawn me into the field of politics; and I can say without the slightest hesitation, and yet in all humility, that those who say that religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means...
But I know that I have still before me a difficult path to traverse. I must reduce myself to a zero. So long as a man does not of his own free will put himself last among his fellow creatures, there is no salvation for him. Ahimsa is the farthest limit of humility.
In bidding farewell to the reader, for the time being at any rate, I ask him to join with me in prayer to the God of Truth that He may grant me the boon of Ahimsa in the mind, word and deed.

~From the end of Gandhi's autobiography

Elphaba

02-20-2009, 05:42 PM

interesting, though i wasn't trying to raise ghandi. the point was hinduism and it's many facets, including atheism.

deadheadskier

02-20-2009, 05:56 PM

I would consider myself more an agnostic than an athiest

....but, I don't think you need to believe in God and fear certain repercussions to have that as a guiding force. A conscience is all I need personally.

I see a flip side to this question though. Why are there many religious people that are NOT nice, charitable and good? It's like some Catholics will simply use confession to cover their ass, such that they can do whatever they like.

sums

02-20-2009, 06:15 PM

i was raised an atheist. i was taught the golden rule and that it feels good to help others. my parents taught me good values with a total absence of religion in our house.

staggerlee024

02-20-2009, 06:22 PM

True.

But why does it feel good to help others?
And if we know it feels good why are we conflicted?
If we know it feels good shouldn't we all do it automatically?
And if it does not feel good, as some might contend, why would we ever do it?
And if it does not feel good and we do not help others why does this cause a conflict?

sums

02-20-2009, 06:24 PM

why? it just does. it feels better in my heart to help and to be nice than the other options, to be mean and/or not help.

Uncle Coulro

02-20-2009, 06:48 PM

I would contend that most people who define themselves as atheistic actually do believe in some ultimate, uncaused-cause. They might call this Truth, Love, etc., but they believe, and they derive a sense of natural law arising from that belief.

sums

02-20-2009, 06:50 PM

well put, uncle coulro.

sums

02-20-2009, 06:51 PM

btw, i am no longer an atheiest. i'm a recovering atheist.

PeaceFrog

02-20-2009, 07:02 PM

i was raised an atheist. i was taught the golden rule and that it feels good to help others. my parents taught me good values with a total absence of religion in our house.

Interesting. Thanks for answering.

Although, technically, the golden rule is based in Christianity (isn't it? I may be wrong. That's what I was taught). I don't think we can escape any sort of religious influence. It's entrenched in society.

seany

02-20-2009, 07:15 PM

I don't believe that you need to "believe" in a god to have a strong sense of morality, desire to be a good person/citizen/brother/friend/parent....

I don't know that I would consider myself a hardcore atheist - I like to think that there's some order in the cosmos - but I certainly do not believe in, worship, or fear any god as generally defined. Nor to I believe in heaven or hell.

I'm a good person and I do charitable things because it makes me happy to help others, to do good works, and to try to make the world a little better.

:rose:

deadheadskier

02-20-2009, 07:21 PM

I can vouch for Sean. He maybe a heathen, but he's a damn good brother :thumbup:

Jay

02-20-2009, 08:26 PM

I love the fact that i have the ability to love life and everyone and thing living. But feel sad that there are those i do not love because of the choices they have made. However considering the natural balance of things I do not find this abnormal. I feel these things from deep within and do not believe I need the word of a higher being to be convinced they are truth. I cannot say I believe in one god because it goes against what I feel in my heart. I'm glad I'm here I'm glad you're here and I'm glad we could be together for a little while. I think all we are is dust in the wind and for me the most important thing is to enjoy the ride.

Drop_o_Rain

02-20-2009, 10:47 PM

Please please don't take offense to the question. That was never my intent. I can't tell you how I would act if I didn't believe in God. I can't separate that from my being. I just know that in certain little instances I DO act better than I think that I might because I do want to go to heaven (if there is such a place). Many many times in my life, I am good and charitable because I want to be or because it is the right thing to do, but in times that really wouldn't matter,,,, like to strangers or to people I really could give a rats ass about or people who have hurt me, then I don't know how I would act without my beliefs.

To say that I am not a good person because of my motivations are going a little far though. I would say the same.. that if you are only doing good things because of how something makes you feel, then your motivation isnt much different.

Thanks for the discussion.

(What is an OP?)

TEO

02-20-2009, 11:25 PM

Fear of the unknown?

SunRa

02-21-2009, 12:44 AM

I just know that in certain little instances I DO act better than I think that I might because I do want to go to heaven (if there is such a place).

all acts of giving are good. if believing in heaven is what you need in order to help you give (whether it be material giving or just giving of yourself), so be it. eventually you may just give for the joy of giving.

Many many times in my life, I am good and charitable because I want to be or because it is the right thing to do, but in times that really wouldn't matter,,,, like to strangers or to people I really could give a rats ass about or people who have hurt me, then I don't know how I would act without my beliefs.

i think eventually you'll come to see that being charitable to a stranger DOES matter. think of the ripple effect. or simply how good it felt when a stranger was charitable to you.

as for people who hurt you, that's a tougher one. that all depends on the situation.
in some cases, it can be very liberating.
in others, perhaps you really are better off separating yourself from them entirely.

To say that I am not a good person because of my motivations are going a little far though. I would say the same.. that if you are only doing good things because of how something makes you feel, then your motivation isnt much different.

i think it has less to do with receiving a good feeling as a reward, and more then inner feeling/knowing that we're all connected and our actions really do matter. i think the more you experience this, the more you'll come to realize that it's a lot deeper than the simple animalistic training of "good behavior = reward/heaven; bad behavior = punishment/hell".
although that form of conditioning works well on lower life forms, i'd like to think that humans have evolved beyond it at this point.
and THAT is our spiritual side imo.

(What is an OP?)

original poster.

halfstar

02-21-2009, 01:40 AM

I'm sorry but I dont get the connection between believing in a mythical creature and being nice, charitable and good. You dont have to play make believe to be a good, honest person.

In fact, if you only act in this way as service to such a being, I would ask your motivation. I would say you are merely serving "god", not acting on your own behalf.

motti

02-21-2009, 11:45 AM

I am neither an atheist nor agnostic, but my understanding of the likelyhood of their being a god is closer to deism, I am sure there is a prime force behind the universe, but i am unsure that that force is able to be concerned about my actions.

That being said, I do good things in this world, and help as i can because i want the world around me to be a better place, its in my own self interest to treat the people around me in a kind and good way, and that extends to strangers...

it is not because i am beholden to god, but because my world is better by acting in a responsible helpful and good way.....

PeaceFrog

02-21-2009, 01:30 PM

Ahh... The Ripple Effect! That's it.

And that is also what this power greater than ourselves is. It's the influence you have on other people that you can't control.

One action causes another which causes another. It's a chain reaction of events that we have no control over after the first initial action (which was probably a reaction to something else anyway).

We are constantly receiving information from the world, digesting it, and then broadcasting out for the universe to absorb. We are always interacting with and creating the universe (God) as we go, even when we sleep. I think imagination and creativity come from dreaming.

staggerlee024

02-21-2009, 02:50 PM

But why does it feel good to help others?
And if we know it feels good why are we conflicted?
If we know it feels good shouldn't we all do it automatically?
And if it does not feel good, as some might contend, why would we ever do it?
And if it does not feel good and we do not help others why does this cause a conflict?

Perhaps this is not worded properly. I am no philosopher.

But who defines "good"?
What is "good"?
Is it whatever benefits you as an individual?
Or is it to benefit others?
If helping others, even at your own detriment, is "good" then why is that?

I also do not equate believing in god and following his commandments with "being good for fear of punishment". I look at it quite the opposite. The only other reason to "be good" is for fear of punishment from the law.

If this still undefined "being good" or helping others brings joy I view that as a gift from god.

Ginger Snap

02-22-2009, 12:08 PM

I've always had a sense that there was something greater somehow than myself. Always had a strong sense of faith, although I didn't have a way of talking about it, or a place to direct that faith. The idea of God was just that, an idea, but I never had a sense of it being real to me.

I come from a very religious family, my mother and father met in Bible college, my mother and her family had been missionaries in Haiti for 5 years. I have cousins who have been missionaries their whole lives. So it seemed to make sense for me to search for a place to put my "faith" within Christianity. So as I learned stories and read scripture, I felt a very strong pull toward the teachings of Jesus. His teachings on love, peace, equality, justice, compassion...seemed to exactly to be what I believed in.

But in my journey there came a point where to truly be a Christian, I had to buy into the idea that it was that single act of Jesus dying on the cross that would allow my entrance into heaven. I was fortunate to have had a couple very good lay people and priests helping me to find my way, but no matter waht angle I looked at it, I simply could not make sense of it. I could not wrap my head around that he was ther son of God. And then I simply began to believe that there may not even be God. This was a very difficult period. It was a very painful process to realize that I was not a Christian, nor did I believe in God. What was I to do with this sense that I still had that there was something greater than myself.

What I came to believe is that I could still feel a connection to those values of Jesus, and that they have very deep meaning and are truths to live by in and of themselves. That I can have faith in justice in and of itself without the nessesity of God. That when I best display and live by those truths of love, peace, equality, compassion, I feel most like my true self. And when I see these truths displayed within community, it feels right. True.

Simpler yet, is the idea about morality or ethics in general. Morality itself can only happen in a community, no matter the size of that community. The concept of morality does not even exist in a world of one individual. One can truly be selfish with out reprucussions to oneself or others in this case. So I mean, I guess you have to buy into the idea that it is not only better for others, but also one's self to behave morally.

KindGeeGirl

02-22-2009, 06:37 PM

I raise my kids Agnostic and I speak about Taoism. I tell them that they know what is right from inside of them. If you are in tune with your soul you know right from wrong with out being told the difference.

Being good just because you are scared of the consequences doesn't make you a better person. It just makes you scared. Being good because you know it is right inside of you IMHO is easier.

I don't think I will go to hell for killing someone but I won't do it because it's wrong. I won't damage my karma by doing such a thing. No one had to climb down from a mountain with stone tablets to tell me that.

Hey that's a good answer to your question. We don't believe a traditional god with rules and consequences but we sure as shit believe in karma.

KindGeeGirl

02-22-2009, 08:27 PM

Real integrity is doing the right thing knowing that nobody is going to know whether you did it or not.

Drop_o_Rain

02-22-2009, 09:18 PM

I agree KindGeeGirl.
I KNOW that in myself, I would react and do the right thing without even thinking about it in many situations... and would be more embarrassed if along with that came being recognized.
But to be completely honest with myself, in some situations, I expect that I will "get points" somewhere, somehow.

PeaceFrog

02-23-2009, 07:28 PM

Don Nucka

02-24-2009, 04:28 PM

I'm not an atheist but i don't believe in God/Goddess any of that. If i choose to do the right thing it is because i know its the right thing to do and others will benefit and i will be karmically rewarded. If i chose to do something "wrong" for short term profit or gain, I do so knowing it will come back to be in the long run.

teabag

02-24-2009, 11:55 PM

maybe us non believers are just good people
we don't need a higher power for us to do good and treat people kindly
not looking to gain anything by being who or what you are
no matter what faith or your beliefs are there are GOOD PEOPLE ANd BAD PEOPLE
That simple I don't think religion should be your guidance to be a good person, It should just be

Bonsai

03-01-2009, 08:06 PM

PeaceFrog

03-01-2009, 08:25 PM

It's just a deep fundamental impulse to be good... when I do something that makes me feel like I'm not a good person, it hurts. Guilt and shame are powerful motivators. I don't like feeling those emotions, therefore I am driven to be a good person.

What is responsible for instilling those beliefs within you in the first place? In other words, what sort of yardstick do you use to measure between good and bad?

I think most (maybe even all) cultures are influenced by a religion whether they like it or not.

teabag

03-02-2009, 12:28 AM

religon sucks and guess what so does politics
people should just be, instead of pushing there agenda onto others
How does that sound ?
Very simple I think
If you don't like what somebody is saying say ok have a nice day and a good life
instead of pushing and pushing what one person thinks is right
Let the people decide what is right for oneself

I swear I get so sick and tired of people pushing and pushing what they think the masses should belive, and if you don't fit that bill you are either a bigot or something else. What ever guides us in life for who we all are as a personal indvidual should be respected.

Let people be and Let the people with the so called plan to lead us all shut the fuck up~~~~~

Yes I have a gun and its loaded :pimp:

Who's gonna tell me I can't have it !!

Guess what its legal and I don't shoot people either :V: unless i am left with no choice

if you are pro life you should be pro gun haha

KindGeeGirl

03-02-2009, 09:38 AM

This thread and a murder in my area made me think about what stops religious people from doing whatever they want. In this case it would be a Catholic. The Catholic religion has rules but then give you a big out. If you break these rules, then go to confession and do what the priest tell you then your sins are forgiven. I think they are the only ones with this but I could be wrong.

So my question is, what stops a Catholic from doing whatever they want knowing that they will be forgiven and will go to heaven anyway?

Uncle Coulro

03-02-2009, 01:52 PM

what stops a Catholic from doing whatever they want knowing that they will be forgiven and will go to heaven anyway?
The Sacrament of Reconciliation isn't valid unless the penitent has resolved, prior to receiving the sacrament, to not commit the offense again. If someone believes they can do "whatever they want knowing they will be forgiven" they don't meet the criteria, and the confession is invalid.

Tabbooma

03-02-2009, 02:21 PM

The Sacrament of Reconciliation isn't valid unless the penitent has resolved, prior to receiving the sacrament, to not commit the offense again. If someone believes they can do "whatever they want knowing they will be forgiven" they don't meet the criteria, and the confession is invalid.

You have to give a guarantee you will not commit the sin again, if you lie and know you will commit the sin again, then yes the confession is invalid, but if you really believe you will not commit the same sin again and you do sin again... Its back to confessional with ya...

PeaceFrog

03-02-2009, 06:41 PM

religon sucks and guess what so does politics
people should just be, instead of pushing there agenda onto others
How does that sound ?

It sounds very hypocritical, to be honest.

Bone Daddy

03-02-2009, 07:38 PM

Why are you nice, charitable, good?

because it's easier than being a miserable fuck ALL the time.:lmao:

Bonsai

03-05-2009, 04:48 PM

What is responsible for instilling those beliefs within you in the first place? In other words, what sort of yardstick do you use to measure between good and bad?

I think most (maybe even all) cultures are influenced by a religion whether they like it or not.

I would say experience is responsible for instilling my beliefs in what it is good, or what is right and wrong.

I think this is probably how it works subconsciously: When I've done something without realizing how it affects others, others' reaction to my action makes me either feel good about what I've done, or feel like shit about what I've done. After several similar instances, comparing people's reactions to that particular action, and my emotional reactions to their reactions, I take an average of how many times people generally react positively or generally react negatively to that particular action I've taken. If I repeatedly get negative responses to an action, I assume that is the "wrong" or "bad" thing to do, and adjust my behavior. I then associate that action with bad, but that's subject to change based on further experience. Therefore my sense of goodness and right and wrong is probably kind of fluid. I buy into the obvious absolutes: killing is wrong, in general hurting people is wrong. And there are some people whose reactions to my actions I don't consider, because of a prior experience with them that established that they don't have good judgement, and therefore their reactions shouldn't figure in to my general sense of good and bad. I base this more on the reactions of people I respect.

I was raised Catholic (the super guilty kind) but I've largely rejected most of it. I'm fairly sure it doesn't play much of a part in my sense of right and wrong today, but I won't try to claim that there might not be some kind of subconscious influence carried over from that upbringing. I think you'd be hard pressed to identify it though. I am pretty much as shamelessly hedonistic as they come (though not very in-your-face about it) and that seems to be the opposite of much of Catholicism, to me.

Jersey Thug

03-05-2009, 05:29 PM

Real integrity is doing the right thing knowing that nobody is going to know whether you did it or not.

exactly.

my father instilled in me his ethical beliefs, which have served me well through the years.

my mother passed down the guilt and fear of recrimination she was raised with.

i hold to my fathers beliefs to the best of my ability, strive to be the best person i can be, and have been trying to ditch the rest since i hit adulthood. guilt and fear are powerful motivators, but i don't need them to distinguish right from wrong.

PeaceFrog

03-05-2009, 06:15 PM

I buy into the obvious absolutes: killing is wrong, in general hurting people is wrong.

Funny thing is that those values aren't even absolutes. Is killing really wrong? What if it's in self-defense? What about animals other than humans? What about serial killers? What about in times of war?

Ginger Snap

03-05-2009, 11:39 PM

There were developed systems of morality and ethics far before the Bible was ever written.

Bonsai

03-06-2009, 05:29 PM

exactly.

my father instilled in me his ethical beliefs, which have served me well through the years.

my mother passed down the guilt and fear of recrimination she was raised with.

i hold to my fathers beliefs to the best of my ability, strive to be the best person i can be, and have been trying to ditch the rest since i hit adulthood. guilt and fear are powerful motivators, but i don't need them to distinguish right from wrong.

I should clarify that the guilt and shame I was referring to, does not come from some kind of arbitrary set of rules or laws, or fear of recrimination from a higher power. It is the guilt and shame that comes from within, when you realize you did not treat someone the way you would want to be treated, which is the most powerful motivator for me. Fear doesn't come into it for me because I'm an atheist, so there's nothing to fear but nature (which I sort of see as "God," but that's a whole other topic.) My explanation was really just a long-winded exploration of how I internalize the Golden Rule.

Bonsai

03-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Funny thing is that those values aren't even absolutes. Is killing really wrong? What if it's in self-defense? What about animals other than humans? What about serial killers? What about in times of war?

I was speaking in a very general sense, to our generally accepted societal views of when killing is legal and when it's illegal, which I also think are morally right.

PeaceFrog

03-06-2009, 06:13 PM

I was speaking in a very general sense, to our generally accepted societal views of when killing is legal and when it's illegal, which I also think are morally right.

I know what you're saying... but we haven't even agreed on what variety of killing is right and what killing is wrong. Is capital punishment OK? Abortion is legal, but many people consider it murder. Some vegetarians believe it's wrong to kill animals. Anyone will probably agree (in the general sense) that killing (humans) is wrong, but when pressed for detail I don't think everyone really agrees.

I'm not even sure now what point I was trying to make.

mario

03-07-2009, 07:49 PM

Why are you nice, charitable, good?

I wanted to ask in that other thread, but that day things were getting too crazy and emotional. Now that the storm has passed, I sincerely wonder why people who don't believe in God take the time to be good?

I honestly don't think that I would be the person that I am today without believing in God.

That's kind of sad. So if someone proved tomorrow beyond any shadow of a doubt that there was no dude in the sky who lorded over you, and all the worlds religions threw up their arms, packed up their vestments and closed shop, that you would go on a mad spree of violence?

It's this kind of shocking irony that makes me realize that Athiests are far more moral than many religious individuals. The religious folks are behaving in a nonviolent way because they fear being smited. The Athiest does it because they believe in mutual respect...

...and yet it's the religious zealots that run around calling the athiests devils, sinners, and bad people.

Mr_Pat

03-07-2009, 08:05 PM

The religious folks are behaving in a nonviolent way because they fear being smited. The Athiest does it because they believe in mutual respect...

Wow I never thought of it that way....

PeaceFrog

03-07-2009, 08:09 PM

I don't think all religious folks act out of fear. Sure, of course some probably do, but I also think that some do it out of love for the God they've come to believe in.

Drop_o_Rain

03-08-2009, 12:18 AM

That's kind of sad. So if someone proved tomorrow beyond any shadow of a doubt that there was no dude in the sky who lorded over you, and all the worlds religions threw up their arms, packed up their vestments and closed shop, that you would go on a mad spree of violence?

It's this kind of shocking irony that makes me realize that Athiests are far more moral than many religious individuals. The religious folks are behaving in a nonviolent way because they fear being smited. The Athiest does it because they believe in mutual respect...

...and yet it's the religious zealots that run around calling the athiests devils, sinners, and bad people.

No.. I wouldn't Mario. HOWEVER, I dont think that I would be nice to people who have continually stepped on me either.

And I am not a zealot, and I don't think that atheists are devils, sinners, or bad people.. just to set the record straight.

mario

03-08-2009, 12:22 AM

I don't think all religious folks act out of fear. Sure, of course some probably do, but I also think that some do it out of love for the God they've come to believe in.

Well, it's like kimmy was saying, that she didn't think she would be the same person w/o religion, implying that she may be a person without scruples. I disagree with this of course, knowing many Athiest, and otherwise non religious folks who again are not scoundrels.

What's scarier is what violent acts religious people can be motivated to do in the name of faith. History is littered with the corpses of people who crossed religion.

staggerlee024

03-08-2009, 02:00 PM

The religious folks are behaving in a nonviolent way because they fear being smited. The Athiest does it because they believe in mutual respect...

This is not correct

mario

03-08-2009, 04:01 PM

No.. I wouldn't Mario. HOWEVER, I dont think that I would be nice to people who have continually stepped on me either.

And I am not a zealot, and I don't think that atheists are devils, sinners, or bad people.. just to set the record straight.

I don't think you SHOULD be nice to people who step on you. If someone steps on you, you stop them from doing so, and distance them from yourself and those you care about. Doesn't mean use of violence per say, but nobody should run a muck unchecked.

Never thought you were a zealot... ;) We all know they exist though.

mario

03-08-2009, 04:01 PM

This is not correct

Pipe down commie! :lol:

bsktcase

03-11-2009, 11:55 AM

I just saw this today.

For me, I don't ever want anyone to feel bad or down or upset because of anything I do. I wouldn't want anyone to make me feel that way, either.

Just because I don't believe in god doesn't mean I think people are worthless or shouldn't be treated with equal love and respect. If I lived my life negatively, what would it accomplish? I enjoy having friends. I really like being happy. If I treated someone poorly, it would only make me feel bad about myself.

For me the good feelings that come with being kind, compassionate, etc, come on 'this' level. A personal, immediate level. I don't do good or act nice because I think in the end, I'll be rewarded for it. I know I'll be rewarded for it now from other people who treat me the same way. I think that's just common sense.