unresolved issues

[little frog]

i recently met up with an old friend from HS whom i adored and have been looking for, for many years, turns out she lives only about 20 minutes from me (no highway)

anyway, she's a reiki master now, no suprise there at all, and we were talking about life, catching up .. relationships.. etc

we were discussing the subject of how unresolved issues in past relationships affect current relationships, so she assigned me some homework, to meditate on which unresolved issues are most affecting my current relationships.

i thought this would be a good exercise to share with all of you.

my big one is of course the issues with my mom when i was younger. although we have a great relationship now, the little girl i used to be is still stinging from all her rejections and harsh (evil) criticisms of my childhood, and how i spent all my childhood thinking she hated me and that i could never earn her love.

i'm working this out .. but i wanted to share this exercise with all of you ..

[sarah b.]

thanks, froggie.

[TEO]

Do your own homework! :spank:

Interesting, seems we have similar childhood mother issues, although I suspect a frighteningly large number of women do. My thoughts rather than earning love, were centered around how everyone would be better off, if I were dead, and dwelling on suicide from an extremely early age. It wasn't until 7-10 years ago, that I learned that was not "normal."

[little frog]

funny because my dad was the exact opposite, i was his little girl, which in some ways made my relationship with my mother even more difficult because i think she resented the fact that i worshiped him.

i'm so sorry you were suicidal at such a young age (or ever) .. i wonder how i managed not to be? looking back i think i was saved by the rest of the family (all men, my dad and two brothers) who loved openly and esp my older brother who never took her seriously and adored me (he still does). of course he was never her target, i was.

i still tend to choose partners more like her than like my dad, which has always been odd to me, but now makes sense.

letting go is harder than it seems sometimes.

[TEO]

Letting go, becoming non-attached seems to be the most difficult task.

My Dad was also opposite, and I was his worshipping little girl. In my case, around the age of 7-9, my mother effectively put a stop to my father and I being able to spend any time together, other than for harvesting firewood, lugging rocks and the like.

My Dad is still my hero. :heart:
Of course, he and I are just alike, according to my mother.

[vinandtonic]

I can't imagine such an upbringing. I'm so sorry that you both (and others) had to go through that.:heart:

[Wende]

Frog, you have the same exact childhood issues that I too face. WOW! Still to this day, daddy's little girl. My mom is so mean sometimes and so negative still that it is hard for me to get over it.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

I'm wondering why your Dads didn't step up and protect you from such abuse from your Moms?

[Ginger Snap]

I think about this a lot. Much of my mother/daughter issues revolved around an emotional distance. I always felt like she really just wasn't that interested in me, in what was going on with me- so long as the house ran smoothly, which it did because I was good, responsible little girl. A lot of this I've been able to work out and come to terms with because having been a single mother for quite sometime, I realize she was just fucking tired. And there wasn't anyone really there for her to help her take care of her emotional health. She was just trying to work as much as she could to pay the bills. I mostly stay conscious of this, so as to not follow the same pattern with my children. I'm no longer angry at her at all. In fact, we've grown much closer the past several years, as I really feel in my heart there are times no one but her truly understands how I feel.

Dad, on the otherhand, is a constant nagging dilemma that is clearly unresolved and affects current relationships. He was more the source of emotional connection when I was very young, and when the folks divorced, he split. Couldn't handle life, got drunk, and fled to live with his folks. Coward.

one of the repurcussions I am able to see is that I tend to stay in relationships much longer than I should, even if they are not healthy for me. And I feel a little pitiful actually saying this, but I know it's true, and I know the only way to deal with it and move on is to be real, but I know the terrible pain of being alone, and even when everything looks fine on the outside and all the tasks and responsibilities of life are taken care of, inside is a world of pain, anxiety, despair. but I've been working all this out for sometime now, and I've made great progress on developing healthy friendships and relationships with my family so that I don't have to be afraid of that loneliness again. And so I certainly don't have to let it paralyse me into staying in something out of fear of the alternative.

I'm not ready to let go of my anger at him quite yet. That first abandonment wasn't the only time he left me hanging at a time I needed him most. I'll for sure not put myself in the position to depend on his support. But I know that I don't have to be that gaurded with everyone. And I'm a big girl now.

[Wende]

I'm wondering why your Dads didn't step up and protect you from such abuse from your Moms?


simple... ya don't realize the affects until you're grown. And in my case, my dad and my mom were rarely with us at the same time. He ran a business and my mom was an OR nurse. Opposite shifts. It's just one of those things I guess.

[little frog]

I think about this a lot. Much of my mother/daughter issues revolved around an emotional distance. I always felt like she really just wasn't that interested in me, in what was going on with me- so long as the house ran smoothly, which it did because I was good, responsible little girl. A lot of this I've been able to work out and come to terms with because having been a single mother for quite sometime, I realize she was just fucking tired. And there wasn't anyone really there for her to help her take care of her emotional health. She was just trying to work as much as she could to pay the bills. I mostly stay conscious of this, so as to not follow the same pattern with my children. I'm no longer angry at her at all. In fact, we've grown much closer the past several years, as I really feel in my heart there are times no one but her truly understands how I feel.

Dad, on the otherhand, is a constant nagging dilemma that is clearly unresolved and affects current relationships. He was more the source of emotional connection when I was very young, and when the folks divorced, he split. Couldn't handle life, got drunk, and fled to live with his folks. Coward.

one of the repurcussions I am able to see is that I tend to stay in relationships much longer than I should, even if they are not healthy for me. And I feel a little pitiful actually saying this, but I know it's true, and I know the only way to deal with it and move on is to be real, but I know the terrible pain of being alone, and even when everything looks fine on the outside and all the tasks and responsibilities of life are taken care of, inside is a world of pain, anxiety, despair. but I've been working all this out for sometime now, and I've made great progress on developing healthy friendships and relationships with my family so that I don't have to be afraid of that loneliness again. And so I certainly don't have to let it paralyze me into staying in something out of fear of the alternative.

I'm not ready to let go of my anger at him quite yet. That first abandonment wasn't the only time he left me hanging at a time I needed him most. I'll for sure not put myself in the position to depend on his support. But I know that I don't have to be that guarded with everyone. And I'm a big girl now.


it's so odd to take such a concerted look at what you've dragged from your past into your future. and so freeing at the same time.

no one is perfect, everyone deals with their own demons. It's a little hard not to own your parent's demons though, esp when they seem to attach themselves to you.

i think forgiveness has been a big part of letting it all go. not condoning it, just forgiving their flaws.

and then, not projecting all those fears on whomever comes into your life next, that is the biggest hurdle, imho.

[little frog]

my dad simply did not know how bad it was, and i didn't know this wasn't perfectly normal behavior. i did finally 'tell' on her when i was 13 and he made some adjustments, but he worked long hours and she was the one at home.

that is all .. this thread is not about why .. it's about healing :)

[Wende]

exactly. I just talked to my mom and she is such a jealous, mean person... I just sat their listening. And finally, I asked her to lunch. :lol:

[little frog]

i'm now the tough love person in my family. I discovered that she was in reality just a scared hurt little girl in a grown up life. now i'm the mommy and i have STRICT boundaries that she is not allowed to cross without incurring my wrath .. and she is well aware of them. :)

she is also grateful for them in a weird way. she admires and adores me, probably because i refused to put up with her shit anymore

[Ginger Snap]

I have to admit, I don't even know where to start to forgive my dad. It's only been a short time that we have even been speaking. And I thought that once we did everything would be fine. But it's not. we can chit chat and I can tell him how things are with my family but it's all about outside stuff, not important stuff. Like I'd trust him with that. I can barely look him in the eye, and it's no longer because I fear disappointing him, but because I am so dissappointed in him. I don't even know where to begin.

[sums]

here's to healing :heart: it's a long and complicated road...
may we all grow and learn to lead happy and fulfilling lives.

i just read this great quote by eleanor roosevelt yesterday, "happiness is a by-product, not a goal"

:)

[little frog]

I have to admit, I don't even know where to start to forgive my dad. It's only been a short time that we have even been speaking. And I thought that once we did everything would be fine. But it's not. we can chit chat and I can tell him how things are with my family but it's all about outside stuff, not important stuff. Like I'd trust him with that. I can barely look him in the eye, and it's no longer because I fear disappointing him, but because I am so dissappointed in him. I don't even know where to begin.

it's important to distinguish between forgiveness and regaining a relationship with the person who injured you.

forgiveness is about you .. it's about deciding not to hold on to past hurts, it's about letting go.

regaining a relationship with that person is totally unnecessary to experience forgiveness

[Ginger Snap]

it's important to distinguish between forgiveness and regaining a relationship with the person who injured you.

forgiveness is about you .. it's about deciding not to hold on to past hurts, it's about letting go.

regaining a relationship with that person is totally unnecessary to experience forgiveness

Letting go...well that is frightful. I think maybe for so long I was just in pain but didn't have any realway of talking about it. And then when I realized what the heck happened to me, I became angry. And while the anger might not be healthy, I at least felt more in control. I prefer anger to despair. Because then you don't feel lost, you know why exactly why you are hurt.

I need to think about what you said some more.

[sums]

it's important to distinguish between forgiveness and regaining a relationship with the person who injured you.

forgiveness is about you .. it's about deciding not to hold on to past hurts, it's about letting go.

regaining a relationship with that person is totally unnecessary to experience forgiveness

:thup: it took me a few tries before i figured this one out ;) :heart:

[little frog]

i'm still working on it .. i have the knowledge, but the practice is a bit more work

[sarah b.]

forgiveness is about you .. it's about deciding not to hold on to past hurts, it's about letting go.

regaining a relationship with that person is totally unnecessary to experience forgiveness

I was forced to learn to forgive myself for something I said that I hadn't been said with the intention to cause pain to a family member of a friend who killed himself almost 10 years ago.

Zoloft helped (it also increased my bullshit threshold and I wound up staying in the wrong relationship for way longer than I should have, 'cause things that should've been red flags were things I just let roll off my back, but that's another story), but what really helped, what REALLY, REALLY socked it to me that I needed to not wake up drenched in shame every day and not liking myself and wanting to apologize for it, but knowing I couldn't (my dead friend came to me one night and told me to let it go, he knew I didn't mean for her to take a casual remark totally wrong, and that she was just hurting, and she'd be okay) WHAT REALLY WORKED was watching that Mike Gordon movie (I think it was called Outside In, or Inside Out, I don't remember, but Col. Bruce was in it).

Anyway, there's this kid in the movie whose mother yells at him to brush his teeth well, or something, so EVERY DAY, he stands there brushing his teeth a ton, till his teeth were bleeding and stuff.

And I realized that by not forgiving myself, I was being that kid, constantly making my teeth bleed. And I knew I had to stop. I eventually weaned off the Zoloft, and I'm at peace with it, now. I still feel bad, but I know I shouldn't go running after her and bring up old hurt from just after her brother died, and his older sister contacted me soon after, and she said to let it go, too, so I did. But forgiving myself was the big thing, and I had to do that in order to let it go. It was so hard. But eventually, it happened.

----------------------------------------

Anyway, my dad and I had some difficult times, but mostly he is a rock star. I tend to want a guy that likely doesn't exist -- a guy who has the same love of Judaism as my dad, but who isn't observant (religiously), but loves his religion and will be an awesome dad. I have realized that a guy like this probably doesn't exist, so my choice is either to become more observant or to marry someone who isn't as into religion and just deal without to romantic mind-pictures my spiritual heart paints (and in some ways, that's better, but the heart-pictures I have from childhood of my dad saying morning prayers in the house are simply not ones I'll ever probably see a guy who would marry me at my current level of observance creating in my own future home, and while that makes me a little wistful, it beats becoming orthodox [for me]).

My mom said (no-hippyskye) we turn into our parents, but only the good parts. Sounds about right, so far. One thing I find about people whose moms acted like total c-flakes to them when they were growing up is they often become some of the best moms. I love my grandma, but she was and can still be (to her daughters) a very difficult woman.

My mom didn't pass on the negative parenting techniques, when her time to be a parent came around, and for that, I'm very grateful. I realized when I was around 12 that my grandma is simply a product of her environment, and that has made interacting with her much easier. I'm glad I never got the idea that I could "fix" her. I'm SO happy I was raised without guilt as a verb, and that I can spot it and realize that if I feel bad, there's a reason, and other people trying to make me feel bad are being toxic and I should watch out.

I learned the hard way that no one can fix anyone but themselves, and even then, it can be really hard. I have no idea where I got the addict magnet T-shirt from, but I've learned not to put it on. After a hellish few years, I'm not interested in walking that road again (which means I really can only apologize to some, but I simply don't want a relationship like that again. If I want to be a parent, I'll adopt or have a baby. I don't want to marry an infant in a man's clothing.).

[/sits down]

[sums]

:heart:

[little frog]

:heart: nice sarah ... you were the one who helped put me on the 'letting go' path. it was a great concept until you posted that list about letting go. then i had a tool to work with. thanks :heart:

[sarah b.]

oh, wow. my privilege? :) :heart: Reading a book on dialectical behavior therapy (and reading about it online) also helped me work through some of that (and Bob Burney's site, www.joy2meu.com).

[musicmomma]

sarah, mike and i are living proof that you can find someone non-religious that was raised religious that doesn't observe but has an incredible sense of the morals they were brought up to believe. he may be my goyboy but we both have a very strong belief in what is right and wrong morally. not sure that is any consolation to you but i understood exactly what you were saying. :heart:
I was forced to learn to forgive myself for something I said that I hadn't been said with the intention to cause pain to a family member of a friend who killed himself almost 10 years ago.

Zoloft helped (it also increased my bullshit threshold and I wound up staying in the wrong relationship for way longer than I should have, 'cause things that should've been red flags were things I just let roll off my back, but that's another story), but what really helped, what REALLY, REALLY socked it to me that I needed to not wake up drenched in shame every day and not liking myself and wanting to apologize for it, but knowing I couldn't (my dead friend came to me one night and told me to let it go, he knew I didn't mean for her to take a casual remark totally wrong, and that she was just hurting, and she'd be okay) WHAT REALLY WORKED was watching that Mike Gordon movie (I think it was called Outside In, or Inside Out, I don't remember, but Col. Bruce was in it).

Anyway, there's this kid in the movie whose mother yells at him to brush his teeth well, or something, so EVERY DAY, he stands there brushing his teeth a ton, till his teeth were bleeding and stuff.

And I realized that by not forgiving myself, I was being that kid, constantly making my teeth bleed. And I knew I had to stop. I eventually weaned off the Zoloft, and I'm at peace with it, now. I still feel bad, but I know I shouldn't go running after her and bring up old hurt from just after her brother died, and his older sister contacted me soon after, and she said to let it go, too, so I did. But forgiving myself was the big thing, and I had to do that in order to let it go. It was so hard. But eventually, it happened.

----------------------------------------

Anyway, my dad and I had some difficult times, but mostly he is a rock star. I tend to want a guy that likely doesn't exist -- a guy who has the same love of Judaism as my dad, but who isn't observant (religiously), but loves his religion and will be an awesome dad. I have realized that a guy like this probably doesn't exist, so my choice is either to become more observant or to marry someone who isn't as into religion and just deal without to romantic mind-pictures my spiritual heart paints (and in some ways, that's better, but the heart-pictures I have from childhood of my dad saying morning prayers in the house are simply not ones I'll ever probably see a guy who would marry me at my current level of observance creating in my own future home, and while that makes me a little wistful, it beats becoming orthodox [for me]).

My mom said (no-hippyskye) we turn into our parents, but only the good parts. Sounds about right, so far. One thing I find about people whose moms acted like total c-flakes to them when they were growing up is they often become some of the best moms. I love my grandma, but she was and can still be (to her daughters) a very difficult woman.

My mom didn't pass on the negative parenting techniques, when her time to be a parent came around, and for that, I'm very grateful. I realized when I was around 12 that my grandma is simply a product of her environment, and that has made interacting with her much easier. I'm glad I never got the idea that I could "fix" her. I'm SO happy I was raised without guilt as a verb, and that I can spot it and realize that if I feel bad, there's a reason, and other people trying to make me feel bad are being toxic and I should watch out.

I learned the hard way that no one can fix anyone but themselves, and even then, it can be really hard. I have no idea where I got the addict magnet T-shirt from, but I've learned not to put it on. After a hellish few years, I'm not interested in walking that road again (which means I really can only apologize to some, but I simply don't want a relationship like that again. If I want to be a parent, I'll adopt or have a baby. I don't want to marry an infant in a man's clothing.).

[/sits down]

[sarah b.]

thanks, musicmomma. :heart: I hear ya! I was giving this a lot of thought, this afternoon. It becomes much easier if the idea of having children is not involved (my health concerns mean I have to be prepared to go either way, biologically, anyway). I have actually met some guys who would accept me as I am, but the orthoprax ones tend to be angry or judgmental of others (and I mean other Jews, in this case, which I find more obnoxious), and that shit doesn't fly with me. That, or they have coke habits and are militant secular Zionists, and I'm not willing to deal with either of those extremes. The door of my heart's home is open, and it's not into fronting. Easier to just order in kosher and eat on paper and plastic, you know?

My dad wonders why I've never invited him to my home. It's 'cause he won't eat at my house, 'cause my kitchen's not kosher. What's the point? I go back and forth between wanting to have a kosher kitchen and not, but right now kosher meat just isn't affordable and I'm not doing my own grocery shopping, so I'll figure it out when my body's not something I have to think about when I want to walk. Or not. There's a kosher kitchen in the home of some guys who live a few blocks away. When they've invited me over, I've used tin pans and borrowed their kitchen earlier in the week, so they know what I made is kosher. I have no problem respecting their adherence. I'm simply not at that point, for myself.

I just take the good parts, and keep those, and it's mostly an ethical framework in a house of love, and it suits me just fine. And I tend to like songs and traditions.

If being observant were like the military reserves (1 weekend a month and two weeks a year), I could probably deal with that, if the local community were fairly open and accepting of people. There are few places in the world like this. In my head, yeah. :lol: I do realize that when the love is right, everything else just doesn't matter, or it falls into place nicely, and together. Love's funny like that.

[/sarah's ramblings on never being whatever enough, even if I'm loved, anyway, and deciding not to look for a guy for whom I would always be that, 'cause that would be stupid and sad]

Religious thought is not logical. :bresse:

[Elphaba]

my mother is dead and she was the most important person in my life, she loved me unconditionally. :heart:
i'd like to stick a fork in my father's eye and twist it around. :lol:

[TEO]

I'm wondering why your Dads didn't step up and protect you from such abuse from your Moms?

He did not witness much of it (especially the hair pulling), he made a commitment/promise to her, and she is still emotionally abusing him.

Yes, this is most likely where my struggle between wanting "the relaionship" and "fear of commitment" cause me to both push & pull, stay & run.

[sarah b.]

The opportunity to ramble that this thread provided was actually really helpful. Thank you. There was a lot of stuff I thought about that I didn't get into in post format, but I'm glad my thoughts took the journeys they did.

[little frog]

He did not witness much of it (especially the hair pulling), he made a commitment/promise to her, and she is still emotionally abusing him.

Yes, this is most likely where my struggle between wanting "the relaionship" and "fear of commitment" cause me to both push & pull, stay & run.


this is totally my pattern too .. ugh

[little frog]

The opportunity to ramble that this thread provided was actually really helpful. Thank you. There was a lot of stuff I thought about that I didn't get into in post format, but I'm glad my thoughts took the journeys they did.

it's a great exercise ... emotionally exhausting, but worth it

[TEO]

Emotionally exhausting, only while we are still attached (to either the issues or the process), once we let go, the exhaustion is replaced with a magnificient feeling of increased well being.

Remember there are layers and layers, and to give yourself recognition each step/moment of the way. :heart:

[little frog]

so true .. attachment is something i've been working on for a long time.