Hoagie: wtf

[Deadshow Dan]

Orthodox Jews are the Edsels of the religious world. Cool in their time, but worthless in todays age.
What a bizzare, ignorant statement.

1. When exactly was the Edsel cool? The thing never sold
2. When exactly were Orthodox Jews "in their time"? Remember, you've got about 3000 years to work here.
3. How are Orthodox Jews "worthless"?.

I've read some of your back and forth with Sarah. You've sort of singled out Orthodox Jews, so anything about organized religions being obsolete is irrelevant.

Just admit it. This was a stupid bizzare statement.

I know great cool Orthodox Jews who are awesome open people, will admit they could be wrong... but they just believe in god.

[Deadshow Dan]

And let me add, I can rant on about organized religions too, but I certainly am not arrogant enough to know that I understand the universe well enough to know the truth of it all.

[PeaceFrog]

good questions. I hope he sees this.

[TEO]

Well, when I created everything, I felt that a bit of mystique keeps the door open to raising the bar. :wink:

[sarah b.]

that is why I sometimes attend Congregation Jagger/Readings. "Bar-up Guide who art everywhere, TEO be one name ..." :lol: :heart:
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[Deadshow Dan]

Well, when I created everything, I felt that a bit of mystique keeps the door open to raising the bar. :wink:
Always thinking about the bar :cheers:

[staggerlee024]

Dude has some personal issues.
I do myself.
So I can not say much about that.
But dude has been spitting it out past couple of days.

[VibesMommma]

staggerlee, before you edited your post, you wrote that the dude has personal issues & chooses to take them out on God.

One could also argue, however, that this "God" is merely a personal problem in and of itself.

When folks can't handle day to day life, they make up an imaginary friend to help them out. Children & adults alike do this.

Also, when people are filled w/ guilt, they often turn to God to relieve them of this feeling.
Again, a cop out.

[TEO]

Do people really think of God as some external being?

[VibesMommma]

Do people really think of God as some external being?

That's what western "religions" do.

And that's why they are the very opposite of God.



"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

:devil:

[PeaceFrog]

Do people really think of God as some external being?

Do some people really think of God as some internal being?

[VibesMommma]

I will agree with Deadshow Dan, however.

NO ONE should EVER criticize "God's chosen people".

[TEO]

Do some people really think of God as some internal being?

Like a little gnome that lives inside?

[TEO]

I will agree with Deadshow Dan, however.

NO ONE should EVER criticize "God's chosen people".

Chosen to wander the desert? :funny1:

[PeaceFrog]

Like a little gnome that lives inside?

yeah, probably the left ventricle.

My aunt always told me Jesus was in my heart. That's what I think she meant.

[TEO]

Hmmm, I wonder why the left rather than the right? Do you suppose one's political leaning would affect the positioning?

[PeaceFrog]

Hmmm, I wonder why the left rather than the right? Do you suppose one's political leaning would affect the positioning?

I think you're onto something. Satan probably lives in the right ventricle.

[TEO]

I figured there had to be a reason, why they were in the same forum.

[Deadshow Dan]

I will agree with Deadshow Dan, however.

NO ONE should EVER criticize "God's chosen people".

This appears to be another bizzare ignorant statement.

As you appear intelligent enough, what's up with that?

[VibesMommma]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people

[Deadshow Dan]

Oh, I'm fully aware that like many religions, there is a concept of god choosing Jews.

Perhaps you're not aware that this is in many religions, from Islam to the Mormons to the moonies?

[VibesMommma]

Yes, and IMO.. they're all insane.

[Deadshow Dan]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Like I said, I'm pretty damn agnostic.

But seeing how you already know that folks from Neo Nazis to white supremacists to other anti-semites have used that tone and wording to spread hate (as per the wiki you pointed to), and given that you know that other religions have this same concept, and given that I never said ANYTHING like NEVER criticize jewish people or religion, why would you use such intolerant language.

Are you in fact, a racist?

Or are you tolerant?

[Deadshow Dan]

4. Edsels are worth decent money now. Check out ebay if you don't believe me

[TEO]

I prefer educative over tolerant.

[staggerlee024]

More hate spitting

[staggerlee024]

staggerlee, before you edited your post, you wrote that the dude has personal issues & chooses to take them out on God.



I decided that was not appropriate.

Apparently you think otherwise.

[TEO]

Oh, I'm fully aware that like many religions, there is a concept of god choosing Jews.

Perhaps you're not aware that this is in many religions, from Islam to the Mormons to the moonies?

Yeah, and Mary was a virgin.

Interpretation and context :wink:

[Joker]

I will agree with Deadshow Dan, however.

NO ONE should EVER criticize "God's chosen people".Be careful, this kind of statement can get you in big trouble around here. Best stick to criticizing Christians and Muslims.

Welcome to the boards :mrgreen:

[TEO]

Kneepads all around.

[Deadshow Dan]

Yeah, and Mary was a virgin.

Interpretation and context :wink:
I don't actually understand what you're meaning to say TEO.

What I was saying is that many religions have as part of their traditions, liturgy, holy stories that they are the chosen people.

Are you agreeing with another example?

[VibesMommma]

A lot of Judaism IS worthless in today's day & age.

Take the kosher laws for example.
They existed mainly for health reasons.
Now that we have much better food handling, storage & cooking techniques... they're pretty much obsolete.

And simply look at how much PURE INSANITY is in the Old Testament! Allowing slaves, murder, etc...
PLEASE!

I don't know Hoagie, but I don't think he's being a bigot. Just honest, and honesty and religion don't go well together.

[PeaceFrog]

Kosher dill pickles are the bomb.

[Mr_Pat]

I only use kosher salt....

[Deadshow Dan]

A lot of Judaism IS worthless in today's day & age.

Take the kosher laws for example.
They existed mainly for health reasons.
Now that we have much better food handling, storage & cooking techniques... they're pretty much obsolete.

And simply look at how much PURE INSANITY is in the Old Testament! Allowing slaves, murder, etc...
PLEASE!

I don't know Hoagie, but I don't think he's being a bigot. Just honest, and honesty and religion don't go well together.
1. He did not say Judaism: He said Orthodox Jews.
2. Kosher laws are there because god said so. There are zero reasons in the bible for the kashrut laws. The idea they are there for health reasons is speculation (I think that idea first came up around the late 19th century, but I could be wrong). If you don't believe in god kashrut is worthless, if you do it is important, because god says it is.
3. The Old Testament does not condone murder. That's in the ten commandments. It does allow slaves... was one of the first (if not the first) set of laws to mandate proper treatment of slaves and prescribed release date of such slaves. If you don't believe in god, that it is in the bible of historical interest in a number of ways including labor laws, if you do believe in god, they are never required (the wording is "if you have" and were prohibited a couple of thousand years ago if I recall right.) though it is a good question as to why god would allow it at all.

Again, hoagie was talking about Orthodox Jews being worthless, that is a very different thing that talking about the laws and traditions of a religion. If you don't believe in god or in specific religions of course the details within them seem illogical and maybe a little crazy. And I'm all for honesty.

So I see you won't own up to your own apparently bigoted statement. First lying about what I wrote using charged bigoted language. A simple "my bad, sorry" or "I didn't know that" could have sufficed. But in the absence I'll take it you've shown your colors.

Why don't you just own up?

[wowzers]

The old testament also says that women aren't suppose to wear long pants and homosexuals are and abomination. Saying homosexuals are vile and shameful seems a little like bigotry to me.

[VibesMommma]

1. He did not say Judaism: He said Orthodox Jews.

Chicken or the egg.



2. Kosher laws are there because god said so.

Do you honestly believe this??



3. The Old Testament does not condone murder.

Umm... I think you need a better pair of reading glasses my friend.

Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2
When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Ezekiel 20:25-26
I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.



And I'm all for honesty.

Finally something we can agree on!
However, honesty has no place in religion & vice versa.

[Deadshow Dan]

abomination, in my opinion, is a mistranslation. I'll take it you only know that in English.

Vile and shameful are just things you are adding.

The bible also does not say anything about long pants.

---

but that's all besides the point. I assure you I can do a fine job of ripping apart the laws, structure, culture and traditions of any religion, including Judaism.


Saying an entire group of people are "worthless" just because of their religious beliefs is what is intolerant and disrespectful.

Surely wowzers, you don't

[VibesMommma]

Dan, you seem like such a smart person from my years of lurking these boards.

Do you really believe in this nonsense, or are you just playing the devil's advocate?


You don't have to answer; I'm just curious.

[syd_25]

Dan, you seem like such a smart person from my years of lurking these boards.

Do you really believe in this nonsense, or are you just playing the devil's advocate?


You don't have to answer; I'm just curious.

Nothing like an open minded person willing to have a disscusion. :rolleyes:

[wowzers]

a⋅bom⋅i⋅na⋅tion   [uh-bom-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination.
3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination.


Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Up until the last say 50 years pants were considered a mans article of clothing.


I agree that saying any group of people are worthless because of their religious beliefs is intolerant just as saying a entire group of people are an abomination due to who they have sex with.

[Deadshow Dan]

Chicken or the egg.no. there is a great deal of difference between thinking a whole group of people are "worthless" and thinking that a particular religion or all religions are just wrong, and let's just say for arguments sake a problem.. then you have a big tolerance problem





Do you honestly believe this??If you are an Orthodox jew that is the case. The laws of Kashrut are in that category of mitavahs for which there is no reason given in the bible. That is why they were followed, and the whole sanitary reason is a relatively modern (just a few hundred years old)





Umm... I think you need a better pair of reading glasses my friend.

Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2
When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Ezekiel 20:25-26
I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.
If you consider judicial capital punishment after a trail murder, fine.

But I agree with you, you are not an honest person :lol:

[Deadshow Dan]

a⋅bom⋅i⋅na⋅tion   [uh-bom-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination.
3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination.

I hate to tell you this

The bible was written not written in English.

As I wrote, it's a mistranslation imo

[VibesMommma]

An "open minded" person would not fall for such nonsense.

Being "closed minded" is actually a requirement for religions, and it's actually a sin to even question most of them.

[Deadshow Dan]

So vibesmomma your position is all religious people are worthless?

[wowzers]

What is the Hebrew translation for abomination?

[VibesMommma]

So vibesmomma your position is all religious people are worthless?

No.

I think all religions are worthless.

I think they are evil disguised as good; fear disguised as love; ignorance disguised as knowledge.

[Deadshow Dan]

No.

I think all religions are worthless.

I think they are evil disguised as good; fear disguised as love; ignorance disguised as knowledge.
so you disagree with hoagie? Or just Orthodox jews are worthless?

[VibesMommma]

I don't hate the player, I hate the game.

I would guess that's what Hoagie meant as well.

[syd_25]

Calling the "player" delusional is hating the "game"?

[Bone Daddy]

2. Kosher laws are there because god said so.

Was this in the talking snake story, I don't remember.

[wowzers]

Or maybe their all just snowmen.

[VibesMommma]

The player IS delusional though.

That's how they fell for the game in the first place.


Funny how so many people "find" God when they're at their lowest point in life.

As for me... I see the beauty of life all the time. When I'm happy as well as when I'm sad.

It's life. Deal with it.
And if you can't deal with it, make up an imaginary friend to help you along.
But when you & your imaginary friend start seeing yourselves as "chosen/holy/saved"...and then look down on others as "sinners/infidels/gentiles/etc..." then I have a problem.

Of the "big 3" western religions, I'll admit that they Jews are far & away the least harmful. Jesus worshiping religions are the most dangerous historically & Islam isn't much better.

Oh btw... just to be fair to them... Islam is NOT a "religion of peace".
Anyone who says that is a liar, plain & simple.
It's a VIOLENT religion with a VIOLENT holy book (read it sometime, I have) and a VIOLENT "prophet".
(they also worship a meteorite, which I think is hilarious! since it fell from the sky.... they figured it must be from Allah!:funny1:)

[syd_25]

For somone who seems at peace with there own existance, you seem very unhappy with people who don't share your opinion.

[staggerlee024]

interesting

[VibesMommma]

For somone who seems at peace with there own existance, you seem very unhappy with people who don't share your opinion.

Unhappy? I'm very happy, thanks.

I just value TRUTH over BULLSHIT.

[sarah b.]

What is the Hebrew translation for abomination?

Joker. :cheesy: (I'm totally kidding, and he knows it; if you don't know both of us in 3D, please adjust your panties, if they just bunched up.)

---------------

I think if giving over one's sins or burden or whatever helps someone get their shit back together, it is a useful thing for them, even if they tie figures or concepts related to religion to them. Is it a cop-out? Not for them, if it helps them get their life back in order. And that's what matters, imo. Just 'cause it's not my personal cup of tea doesn't mean it's worthless or wrong, if it's helping people help themselves.

-----

Religious thought is not rational or logical. I think even those who believe that the stories in the Bible are true realize that some of the stuff in there is a little far out (illogical). Like talking burning bushes, for example.

-----------------

These are from the Do You Go To Church? thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by VibesMommma:
Anyone who claims that only THEY have spiritual secrets ... is pretty much a fraud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VibesMommma:
the only secret, if ever there was one, is "tat vam asi".
or, put a simpler way, "you're it!"

Do you find irony in these statements, when they are placed together? I know the difference between the two sentences and your use of only in both. I still found it kind of funny. You are not backing up your declaration of what is with any particular religion's ideas, but you are still declaring what "the only secret" is.

Only for whom? Only for you? Okay.
If you mean only for anyone other than you, I see no difference between the quotes above and anyone else saying everyone's got to take JC as their L&S to get into heaven (never mind that not everyone believes in heaven).

My point is that I don't feel it's anyone's right to define spiritual what-it-is, or what a/the secret is, for anyone but themselves (people tend to teach their own children what they believe, but kids grow and come to their own conclusions, eventually), with or without the use of a religion's ideas to back up their hypothesis.

Have a great day, all. :)

[wowzers]

Joker. :cheesy: (I'm totally kidding, and he knows it; if you don't know both of us in 3D, please adjust your panties, if they just bunched up.)

Did you mean to quote someone else? I'm confused.

[VibesMommma]

Nah, "Joker" is someone that this board, in their mob-mentality, has decided is part of the out-group.

[wowzers]

Well if it helps someone get their life back together by saying someone is unclean and forbidden or vile and shameful (depends on what definition you want to go with) then more power to them, and I hope it works out for them. I just tend to call people that do that bigots.

[VibesMommma]

Well if it helps someone get their life back together by saying someone is unclean and forbidden or vile and shameful (depends on what definition you want to go with) then more power to them, and I hope it works out for them. I just tend to call people that do that bigots.

Likewise.

But even this board can be seen as a microcosm of things... you can make fun of gays all you like on here, but if you mention anything even remotely negative about Israel or Jews... watch out!

[sarah b.]

Nah, "Joker" is someone that this board, in their mob-mentality, has decided is part of the out-group.

Speak for yourself. Joker and I disagree on certain topics, and we have educated each other on our points of view on certain things both on the board and via PM, and while neither of us agrees with everything the other has ever posted on these boards, we remain friends.

Which is not to say anyone is in or out. We are all here, imo. In, out, whatever. I've never been "in," whatever that might mean, nor do I care to let that bother me.

Making fun of gays (or singling out any group of people to make fun of them in a malicious way) is not okay, imo.

[In A Silent Way]

Nah, "Joker" is someone that this board, in their mob-mentality, has decided is part of the out-group.
Nonsense. Joker is a beloved contrarian.
:V:

[VibesMommma]

I think his stance on Israel is pretty spot-on, but then he supports the same type of imperialism in the U.S. that he abhors in Israel.

[PeaceFrog]

I think his stance on Israel is pretty spot-on, but then he supports the same type of imperialism in the U.S. that he abhors in Israel.

no you didn't... you didn't just imply he's a hypocrite, did you? :funny1:

[Joker]

Joker. :cheesy: (I'm totally kidding, and he knows it; if you don't know both of us in 3D, please adjust your panties, if they just bunched up.)



:lol:


but then he supports the same type of imperialism in the U.S. that he abhors in Israel.How so?

[VibesMommma]

Oh come on... I wouldn't be surprised if Bush & Cheney were on your Xmas card list!

[PeaceFrog]

Oh come on... I wouldn't be surprised if Bush & Cheney were on your Xmas card list!

:rotf:

He's still in the closet about his Republican tendencies. Supposedly he voted Green this year.

[Joker]

Really? I don't believe I've ever voted Republican in my life

If it were up to me we wouldn't be involved in most of the Middle East bullshit. Unfortunately we have to be involved to some extent.

[PeaceFrog]

Really? I don't believe I've ever voted Republican in my life

If it were up to me we wouldn't be involved in most of the Middle East bullshit. Unfortunately we have to be involved to some extent.

You don't believe??? ha... OK, right. Like I believe that.

There's no doubts in my mind who I've voted for in the past... There's no "I don't believe" about it.

[Joker]

You don't believe??? ha... OK, right. Like I believe that.

There's no doubts in my mind who I've voted for in the past... There's no "I don't believe" about it.Not that I really give a shit what you believe or don't believe but I've been voting since the 70's and I may have voted Republican once or twice in the last 30 years, I can't say with certainty I haven't voted for one in a local election.

[sarah b.]

Did you mean to quote someone else? I'm confused.
Sorry if you were confused. I meant to quote you there. I was making a joke.

[wowzers]

no worries

[jagermonster]

Likewise.

But even this board can be seen as a microcosm of things... you can make fun of gays all you like on here, but if you mention anything even remotely negative about Israel or Jews... watch out!

who makes fun of gays?
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[Mr_Pat]

Likewise.

But even this board can be seen as a microcosm of things... you can make fun of gays all you like on here, but if you mention anything even remotely negative about Israel or Jews... watch out!

I disagree... You can talk Israel, Jew, Arab, Muslim to your heart’s content in P&R. But if anyone make disparaging remarks about any groups, then that’s where we have problems, then you need to watch-out ;)

[TEO]

I don't actually understand what you're meaning to say TEO.

What I was saying is that many religions have as part of their traditions, liturgy, holy stories that they are the chosen people.

Are you agreeing with another example?

Of course they do, if you trace back far enough, they ALL have a common root.

Metaphors are even more difficult to understand, the further we get from the time period in which they were common usage. Human interpretations and exploitations have made a mess of much ancient wisdoms.

[sarah b.]

The only answer for everyone is music, sex and cookies. :cheesy:

[TEO]

Oh come on... I wouldn't be surprised if Bush & Cheney were on your Xmas card list!

Interesting that you would have such depth of observation (mistaken though it may be) so quickly, don't you think?

[gotroot801]

Interesting that you would have such depth of observation (mistaken though it may be) so quickly, don't you think?

Amazing, isn't it?

[Deadshow Dan]

earlier in the thread VibesMommma claimed "years of lurking these boards."

[TEO]

earlier in the thread VibesMommma claimed "years of lurking these boards."


Was that before or after the sex change operation?

[Deadshow Dan]

I see what you're saying !

Some people! :lol:

Hey do y'all remember when Bobby changed the words to Truckin' to " ever since she went and had a sex change"?

[Jam Fan]

i've heard "reds, reds, and all kinds of shit"

early 1980's

[In A Silent Way]

Hey do y'all remember when Bobby changed the words to Truckin' to " ever since she went and had a sex change"?
All a friend can say is "a fucking shame."

[SunshineDrummer]

For somone who seems at peace with there own existance, you seem very unhappy with people who don't share your opinion.

Unhappy? I'm very happy, thanks.

I just value TRUTH over BULLSHIT.

Still begs the question of why you feel so compelled to put others down for their beliefs. If you're happy with your life, then bug off and let others be happy with theirs.

[Mr_Pat]

i've heard "reds, reds, and all kinds of shit"

early 1980's


Yeah, I love the 80's version...

[Drop_o_Rain]

who makes fun of gays?
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I would like to know this too...
on more than one occasion I have seen this "fact" thrown around... that you can make fun of gay people here...
and I would like to know when and where this has happened...
because as a VG, I have tried very hard to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen. It is not allowed here and if I have missed something, I would very much appreciate a heads up!

[Joker]

This place was full of threads mocking gays for awhile. Some folks insinuating they were gay lovers as if it were a bad thing. Pretending spelling it ghey making it ok to use as an insult or pics along the lines of this

http://home.arcor.de/murdok1/ghey.jpg

[Deadshow Dan]

2. Kosher laws are there because god said so.

Was this in the talking snake story, I don't remember.
There are 613 Mitzvahs in the jewish religion.

When you spell them all out, you can point to the origin of the mitzvah in the Torah (the 5 books of moses).

You can then look and see which ones were given a reason in the torah.

The ones that don't have a reason are in a category that they are the law because god said so.

----

As an aside, I certainly don't understand what the whole kashrut prohibition against a cheeseburger would have to do with health concerns and cooking techniques. But that's another story :lol:

[TEO]

There are 613 Mitzvahs in the jewish religion.

When you spell them all out, you can point to the origin of the mitzvah in the Torah (the 5 books of moses).

You can then look and see which ones were given a reason in the torah.

The ones that don't have a reason are in a category that they are the law because god said so.

----

As an aside, I certainly don't understand what the whole kashrut prohibition against a cheeseburger would have to do with health concerns and cooking techniques. But that's another story :lol:

I was under the impression that prior to more modern forms of refirigeration, milk products & meat products were not mixed due to bacteria and the resulting sickness/food poisoning.
Perhaps it is time for God to send an update memo?

[Joker]

I disagree... You can talk Israel, Jew, Arab, Muslim to your heart’s content in P&R. But if anyone make disparaging remarks about any groups, then that’s where we have problems, then you need to watch-out ;)

Meanwhile, there's a huge thread in the family forum with many posts mocking religion and Christianity that's been allowed to remain there for about a week now. :rolleyes:

[jagermonster]

that's how it was described to me as well by a woman I used to work for who married an orthodox jew. she said they basically had two separate kitchens. and two of most utensils, cookware etc. so they would never cross contaminate.
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[Deadshow Dan]

I was under the impression that prior to more modern forms of refirigeration, milk products & meat products were not mixed due to bacteria and the resulting sickness/food poisoning.
Perhaps it is time for God to send an update memo?

Bacteria is a very interesting concept to assume someone to have 2500 ior 3000 years ago.

:lol:

Not to mention, just leeep them seperate and put the hunk of milk or cheese in at the time of food preparation.


The kashrut laws have no reason.

If you believe, they are from god.

If you don't they are a tradition born in custom.

This idea that there was any concept of bacteria just is historically off. The ancient jews came up with some pretty clever concepts (for example a advanced lunar calendar that let months stay in season, much like the Mayans). but they did not come up with the idea of bacteria !

[Deadshow Dan]

that's how it was described to me as well by a woman I used to work for who married an orthodox jew. she said they basically had two separate kitchens. and two of most utensils, cookware etc. so they would never cross contaminate.
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The comtaminate is not meant in a bacteria way... You don't want to have the milk type and the meat type in the same place, lest you somehow eat a morsel of them together.... because god says you can't eat them together!

[In A Silent Way]

God: Moses, tell the people of Israel do not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
Moses: You mean do not eat meat and milk together?
God: Do not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
Moses: You mean keep two sets of dishes?
God: Do not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
Moses: You mean if milk touches a meat ***, or meat touches a milk ***, you must smash the ***?
God: *sigh* Have it your way.

[jagermonster]

:lol:

I can't imagine a life devoid of cheesesteaks.
I remember when we all went out for pizza after work one day and she seemed so mad that she couldn't have the pepperoni slices...(she converted)
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[Don Nucka]

I will agree with Deadshow Dan, however.

NO ONE should EVER criticize "God's chosen people".



very true, it's ok to mock Christians, Muslims, Rastas, Pagans etc, on here but God forbid someone talk poorly of the "chosen ones". Of course considering our demographic (Northeastern, wealthy liberals) this isn't suprising. Flame away, but I'm right.

[PeaceFrog]

Does Hoagie even know this thread exists? I'm surprised he hasn't said anything by now.

[TEO]

As to ancient and advanced:

Some say the the people of Atlantis still exist, yet on a higher plane, that we are curerently unable to perceive. Similar to how we do not see the space between the moving atoms, in objects we consider solid.

[PeaceFrog]

there may be an infinite number of parallel universes all existing simultaneously, like layers of a sandwich.

[sarah b.]

Meanwhile, there's a huge thread in the family forum with many posts mocking religion and Christianity that's been allowed to remain there for about a week now. :rolleyes:

I hear you. I don't quite know if/when I will put my foot in my mouth, if I open it, re: religions other than my own, so I stopped posting in that thread (that, and I couldn't deal with the preaching). Pointing out that it's not nice to say what anything is for anyone other than oneself or that knocking the beliefs of others isn't very nice doesn't seem to encourage some folks to be more respectful of the beliefs of others. Stuff like that isn't content of which I'm fond. I will consult someone who better understands from where people are coming, if I see that again. Knocking is knocking, doesn't matter who's knocking whom.

[TEO]

I'd like to knock Mick. :wink:

[HasATinyHat]

Orthodox Jews are the Edsels of the religious world. Cool in their time, but worthless in todays age.


Hoaganese to English translation: Back in the days of Egyptian Pharoahs, Hykksos invasions, Philistines, Caananites, Pharisee's, and slings and giants, faith was ALL YOU HAD to keep your tribe together, IT WAS YOUR VERY IDENTITY. Life in this desert wasteland was tough. Very tough. You not only had other tribes to contend with, but foreign governments who were constantly taking your women and children into slavery every now and again. So, you put your faith in your GOD.

Now, anyone who has studied up on their comparative religion will know and accept that the Jewish Faith started as a cult that was spun off from the Zoroastrian religion of Persia and Babylon. Zarathustra, (or Zoroaster) taught of the one God Ahura Mazda, the creator of the universe, and all life. He was, in turn, influenced by Pharoah Amon-Ra, who first consolidated all Gods and Goddesses in the Egyptian faith into one overarching GOD, Aton (Atun...later RA, the sun god)... but i digress...

Fast forward back to the ancient Jews. Not all tribes accepted this idea of One All Powerful god. The evudence for this in in the Torah, in the ten commandments specifically.

"2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me"

(i wont even touch the mention of "I am a jealous god"... yikes!)

So, we can logically assume that this commandment is a direct reaction to other tribes rejecting this "new" monotheistic viewpoint. We also know that eventually, these tribes and sects either converted to monotheism, or died away...fleaving Jews.

So, now we have these 12 tribes (i know im sorta skipping around for sake of brevity), decendancts of Abraham, leaders of the Jewish faith. THIS IS WHERE I WAS MAKING MY EARLIER POINT!!! In that time, you had to stick with your faith to live, to survive, to ensure YOUR way of life, culture, and beliefs made it to future generations. Jewish law reflects this in the way that the faith is tracked down a bloodline from the mother.

That was then...2000 years ago - dawn of Christianity. The faith was of supreme importance, or "Cool in their time". But in today's age...where people are intermarried, and religious beliefs are not just questioned, but looked at as the mind-numbing institutions they have become, it becomes obvious that they are (IMHO) "but worthless in todays age." If you do not agree, I urge you to read the thread in which an Orthodox Jewish mother would rather give up her daughter in her life, than for her daughter to be happy.

If you can agree with that position, then you too, are a foolish misguided soul. No faith, no belief system, no religion should ever come between a mother and her daughter. And NO GOD of MINE if "Jealous" "spiteful" or exclusive.

I dont know about any of you, but my god IS EVERYTHING. It is the UNIVERSE, and includes everything with equal acceptance. Anything else is not god...

[TEO]

where people are intermarried, and religious beliefs are not just questioned, but looked at as the mind-numbing institutions they have become

Seems that the problem lies in the "bastardization and slanting" by human beings of influence, of the core principles on how to live a life in harmony and balance with all.

[HasATinyHat]

The Kashrut/Kosher laws are not there "just because" God said so. Dont be THAT guy...

u dont eat pork because, as chris rock so eloquently put it, "A pork chop could kill ya." Im not gonna harp on it, but they were written as "Gods" laws to help keep the population of the tribe as healthy as they could. Its really that simple...

[HasATinyHat]

the only other beef io have with OJs in particular is straightforward....

they choose to live an austere, plain, strict life of piety and faith. Most are humble, friendly, and very nice people. Every now and then tho, you run into an Orthodox Jew who simply has to remind you just how tough their faith is, how horrible others are to them due to their different dress, different hair/beards, etc. That is BULLSHIT, out and out. No one should EVER use their faith to make others feel bad...if you want to wear black, not shave, and have sex through a sheet, it doesnt make ME evil because I choose not too.

[Ginger Snap]

I'd like to knock Mick. :wink:


:lmao:

[motti]

the only other beef io have with OJs in particular is straightforward....

they choose to live an austere, plain, strict life of piety and faith. Most are humble, friendly, and very nice people. Every now and then tho, you run into an Orthodox Jew who simply has to remind you just how tough their faith is, how horrible others are to them due to their different dress, different hair/beards, etc. That is BULLSHIT, out and out. No one should EVER use their faith to make others feel bad...if you want to wear black, not shave, and have sex through a sheet, it doesnt make ME evil because I choose not too.

funny thing, if you would have expressed that sentiment, i would have griped with you, instead you under the guise of not having the time to make yourself clear, made an offensive blanket statement.

And nobody has sex through a sheet, that is a myth...

[TheDHJ]

the only other beef io have with OJs in particular is straightforward....

they choose to live an austere, plain, strict life of piety and faith. Most are humble, friendly, and very nice people. Every now and then tho, you run into an Orthodox Jew who simply has to remind you just how tough their faith is, how horrible others are to them due to their different dress, different hair/beards, etc. That is BULLSHIT, out and out. No one should EVER use their faith to make others feel bad...if you want to wear black, not shave, and have sex through a sheet, it doesnt make ME evil because I choose not too.

Wow. Holy fucking bigotry Batman. Wow.

[TEO]

Wow. Holy fucking bigotry Batman. Wow.

How are those statement construed as bigotry?

I wouldn't think one would have to be of any particular race, color, sex, religion, age to do any of those things.

[TEO]

Is sex through a sheet similar to putting a sock on it?

[PeaceFrog]

some people seem a little hypersensitive.

If you're confident in yourself and your beliefs, then it wouldn't seem you'd let other peoples opinion bother you. You can't please everyone.

The only time I think some action needs to be taken is when there's actual discrimination or hate crimes involved... but opinions don't really mean anything.

I, too, think religions are a little archaic... but that's just me. I've never made it my mission to shout it from the hills.

[Joker]

How are those statement construed as bigotry?

I wouldn't think one would have to be of any particular race, color, sex, religion, age to do any of those things.


Because he was talking about Jews.

It's like asking a person if "lying is in his genes." If that person is Jewish, then it's an attack on all Jews. :rolleyes:

Are you new around here?

[Deadshow Dan]

the only other beef io have with OJs in particular is straightforward....

Wow. Holy fucking bigotry Batman. Wow.

How are those statement construed as bigotry?

I wouldn't think one would have to be of any particular race, color, sex, religion, age to do any of those things.
The words in particular kind of contradict any idea of generalizing this out ro others, don't you think?

Intentionally or nonintnentionally hoagie is expressing bigotted thoughts.

hoagie, you are acting like a fucking bigotted bastard, or a complete brainless fool

Now a person COULD attribute this sort of thought to folks in general, but instead hoagie decides that it's just Orthodox Jews in particular en masse, that are worthless.... directly saying every single orthodox jew is a worthless person. That, my dear TEO, is bigotry or idiocy... plain and simple.

[Deadshow Dan]

Hoaganese to English translation: Back in the days of Egyptian Pharoahs, Hykksos invasions, Philistines, Caananites, Pharisee's, and slings and giants, faith was ALL YOU HAD to keep your tribe together, IT WAS YOUR VERY IDENTITY. Life in this desert wasteland was tough. Very tough. You not only had other tribes to contend with, but foreign governments who were constantly taking your women and children into slavery every now and again. So, you put your faith in your GOD.

Now, anyone who has studied up on their comparative religion will know and accept that the Jewish Faith started as a cult that was spun off from the Zoroastrian religion of Persia and Babylon. Zarathustra, (or Zoroaster) taught of the one God Ahura Mazda, the creator of the universe, and all life. He was, in turn, influenced by Pharoah Amon-Ra, who first consolidated all Gods and Goddesses in the Egyptian faith into one overarching GOD, Aton (Atun...later RA, the sun god)... but i digress...

Fast forward back to the ancient Jews. Not all tribes accepted this idea of One All Powerful god. The evudence for this in in the Torah, in the ten commandments specifically.

"2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me"

(i wont even touch the mention of "I am a jealous god"... yikes!)

So, we can logically assume that this commandment is a direct reaction to other tribes rejecting this "new" monotheistic viewpoint. We also know that eventually, these tribes and sects either converted to monotheism, or died away...fleaving uJews.

So, now we have these 12 tribes (i know im sorta skipping around for sake of brevity), decendancts of Abraham, leaders of the Jewish faith. THIS IS WHERE I WAS MAKING MY EARLIER POINT!!! In that time, you had to stick with your faith to live, to survive, to ensure YOUR way of life, culture, and beliefs made it to future generations. Jewish law reflects this in the way that the faith is tracked down a bloodline from the mother.

Summary: Like many other religions (but not all).. the holy scriptures say "this is the right religion"

That was then...2000 years ago - dawn of Christianity. The faith was of supreme importance, or "Cool in their time".Ah, how interesting.... when jews were "cool in their time" is when the religion you were presumably brought up in was starting :lol: bwahahahaha

But in today's age...where people are intermarried, and religious beliefs are not just questioned, but looked at as the mind-numbing institutions they have become, it becomes obvious that they are (IMHO) "but worthless in todays age."This has been an issue for thousands of years in the jewish religion. Your own fucking post says the ten commandments were written because it was an issue then.

If you do not agree, I urge you to read the thread in which an Orthodox Jewish mother would rather give up her daughter in her life, than for her daughter to be happy.again, plenty of Orthodox Jews deal with this just fine... plenty of Hindus, Catholics, Muslims, etc. etc. etc. etc. disown their kids in the same exact manner.

If you can agree with that position, then you too, are a foolish misguided soul. No faith, no belief system, no religion should ever come between a mother and her daughter. And NO GOD of MINE if "Jealous" "spiteful" or exclusive.

I dont know about any of you, but my god IS EVERYTHING. It is the UNIVERSE, and includes everything with equal acceptance. Anything else is not god...includes everything with equal acceptance?....everything except, of course, Orthodox Jews... they are worthless.

[HasATinyHat]

the world would be better off with NO religion at all. That is the overarching point, and my feeling on the matter. Im not a bigot, I dont HATE that you are faithful. Its your business.

I do owe you an apology for my hasty post. My bad, I never ment to single out the Orthodox JEWS...but the Orthodox Jewish customs, and way of life, and traditions...they are draconian (In my opinion) much like the rack and tar and feathering, while effective punishments, probably arent that useful in todays court systems.

You dont have to agree with me, but we also dont need to direspect each other. Again, my apologies for mis-speaking...

[motti]

the world would be better off with NO religion at all. That is the overarching point, and my feeling on the matter. Im not a bigot, I dont HATE that you are faithful. Its your business.

I do owe you an apology for my hasty post. My bad, I never ment to single out the Orthodox JEWS...but the Orthodox Jewish customs, and way of life, and traditions...they are draconian (In my opinion) much like the rack and tar and feathering, while effective punishments, probably arent that useful in todays court systems.

You dont have to agree with me, but we also dont need to direspect each other. Again, my apologies for mis-speaking...

thank you...

[HasATinyHat]

welcome. now wheres Triple Douchenozzle? ;)

that was a joke, in case anyone misinterprets and wants to microanalyze that comment...

[Joker]

welcome. now wheres Triple Douchenozzle? ;)


Why must you hate on nozzles :cry:

[Deadshow Dan]

the world would be better off with NO religion at all. That is the overarching point, and my feeling on the matter. Im not a bigot, I dont HATE that you are faithful. Its your business. errrr, I am not religious. Not one bit. As stated in this thread I am pretty darn agnostic.

I do owe you an apology for my hasty post. My bad, I never ment to single out the Orthodox JEWS...but the Orthodox Jewish customs, and way of life, and traditions...they are draconian (In my opinion) much like the rack and tar and feathering, while effective punishments, probably arent that useful in todays court systems.

You dont have to agree with me, but we also dont need to direspect each other. Again, my apologies for mis-speaking...
Leaving aside your rather messed up analogy , I appreciate your apology and accept that you meant to say something like: Orthodox Judaism, like every other religion, is worthless.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[TEO]

The words in particular kind of contradict any idea of generalizing this out ro others, don't you think?

Intentionally or nonintnentionally hoagie is expressing bigotted thoughts.

hoagie, you are acting like a fucking bigotted bastard, or a complete brainless fool

Now a person COULD attribute this sort of thought to folks in general, but instead hoagie decides that it's just Orthodox Jews in particular en masse, that are worthless.... directly saying every single orthodox jew is a worthless person. That, my dear TEO, is bigotry or idiocy... plain and simple.

And that Dear Deadshow Dan smells like a personal attack. Where shall we draw the lines in the sand?

[TEO]

Are all participants in agreement, that misunderstandings have been clarified, and no one still has their panties in a bunch?

[sarah b.]

my panties don't have time or energy for this, anymore. To this thread, I say my cat is cuter than it, even if it sometimes draws blood when attempting to climb me like the tree I'm not.
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2322/216/54/679742086/n679742086_1595884_170.jpg

[tifffers]

http://www.condomuserreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/300.jpg

That should be the new logo on here. :)

[Deadshow Dan]

And that Dear Deadshow Dan smells like a personal attack. Where shall we draw the lines in the sand?
a personal attack by who on whom?
If you're saying that saying it's bigotry or idiocy is a personal attack.... hoagie's apology would confirm that it was the latter.
If it's saying hoagie's was a personal attack, I'd think his apology was sufficient.
Are all participants in agreement, that misunderstandings have been clarified, and no one still has their panties in a bunch?
see above, it smells like you do.

[TEO]

No, thought I would give you a heads up, that your words can be read from different angles as well.
I can easily read a thinly veiled personal attack in your post, or not, depending on my inner state
when reading, and whether or not I "want" to be offended.

The knife truly does cut both ways.

[syd_25]

TEO you rock.....

(try to take that the wrong way :funny1: )

[Deadshow Dan]

No, thought I would give you a heads up, that your words can be read from different angles as well.
I can easily read a thinly veiled personal attack in your post, or not, depending on my inner state
when reading, and whether or not I "want" to be offended.

The knife truly does cut both ways.
If you "want" to be offended it won't take much. This is not news.

And it's especially not news when you're talking about confronting someone.

Mostly, I'm disappointed instead of saying oh yeah, he did use in particular. (or refuting what I said)...you changed the subject by using what can be read as a veiled VG threat against me... ya know ... if I wanted to look at it that way.

Unbunch the panties?

[TEO]

Treat others as you would have them treat you.
How can one rail against something, then speak with the same tones they are railing against?

Perhaps we should all remember to read our own posts, as if being read by the audience it is directed towards?

*As you know, if I was going to "threaten" you, there would be no mistaking it. :wink: :heart:

[Deadshow Dan]

Treat others as you would have them treat you.
exactly my point

[TEO]

You know that I love wordplay, as well as exploring things from as many angles and views as I can. Sometimes I am exposed to ways of looking at things, that I might have never conceived on my own.

A serious question, can a person be both agnostic and of a certain religion, or does one have to renounce their religious faith to be truly agnostic?

[Deadshow Dan]

The agnostic would say "I'm not sure" ;)

[TEO]

Ahhh, thank you

[Deadshow Dan]

you're welcome