Kudos For Obama's Inclusive Acknowledgment Of "Non Believers"

[Prometheus]

I would like to acknowledge the rare and unusual public acknowledgment yesterday by an American politician that our Nation includes, and values enough to finally mention the existence of "non believers" in the Inaugural Address yesterday. It may be a small and token first step for a US President to specifically include a mention of this traditionally, politically ignored segment of our Nation, but it is nonetheless an important and significant one.

It wasn't all that long ago that George H.W. Bush stated while campaigning at a news conference in Chicago, "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Thank You President Obama for your gesture of inclusiveness, and for leading by example, taking a small step toward the "putting away of childish things" that you mentioned as well.

:V: :jump:

[Feesh]

I heard that and thought that was a very interesting inclusion. :thumbup:

[Chip]

Yeah, I finally felt included.

[Phishfolk]

I was glad and surprised to hear him say that too :clapping:

[Nevrmore]

I've never felt included. I just wish for once someone would mention we Pagans (and generic "Pagan" would suffice). But to most people we are not important (big enough voting power to mention) or they think we aren't worth it cause we're gonna be burning in their hell, or they are afraid of losing the votes of the people that are sure we are destined for a cosmic BBQ.

[PennsylvaniaPete]

I have to believe that Obama is intelligent enough to have his own doubts regarding any religion. Of course we are probably another 40 years away from Americans accepting an admitted athiest or agnostic (or any non Christian/Jew) for President.

[bast]

He said Christian Muslim Jewish, and non believers ( I think in that order) I'm a non believer of Christian Muslim and Jewish Ideologies so I considered myself a nonbeliever in those mentioned religions. He didn't say Atheist so I think his goal was to NOT leave ANYONE out. Therefore a Pagan or Hindu could feel acknowledged.

[gram-man]

Why should the People Against Goodness And Niceness be included in ANYTHING??? :devil: :grin: ;)

[Feesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYmkvyR_jFA

[Nevrmore]

because we have the best cookies :D

(((dun dun dun dun,,dun dun dun dun dun!!))





Why should the People Against Goodness And Niceness be included in ANYTHING??? :devil: :grin: ;)

[GoPlastic]

He said Christian Muslim Jewish, and non believers ( I think in that order) I'm a non believer of Christian Muslim and Jewish Ideologies so I considered myself a nonbeliever in those mentioned religions. He didn't say Atheist so I think his goal was to NOT leave ANYONE out. Therefore a Pagan or Hindu could feel acknowledged.

Christian - Muslim - Jew - Hindu - Nonbeliever in that order.

i thought that included everyone, myself.

[B. Diddy]

Hey Gram, not to correct you, but that's People Against Goodness And Normalcy.

[Feesh]

PAGAN imposters (looking for the virgin Connie Swail)
http://fantasy411.mlblogs.com/dragnet3.jpg

[Nevrmore]

He said Christian Muslim Jewish, and non believers ( I think in that order) I'm a non believer of Christian Muslim and Jewish Ideologies so I considered myself a nonbeliever in those mentioned religions. He didn't say Atheist so I think his goal was to NOT leave ANYONE out. Therefore a Pagan or Hindu could feel acknowledged.



but just because I don't believe in that doesn't make me a nonbeliever. I believe in something, just not the "Big 3". By grouping everyone who doesn't believe in the "Big 3" together as "non belivers" it implies there is something wrong with it, as we don't believe in what is to be believed.

[staggerlee024]

WHY IS THIS THREAD ALLOWED IN THE "FAMILY" FORUM?

[DifferentDrummer]

he should have included "those with different beliefs" as well imo.

[Feesh]

Perhaps by "non believers" he meant people who don't believe in the tenets of the "big 3"?

[Nevrmore]

oh piss, I agree with DifferentDrummer on something

:eek:

[spacewoman]

YAY for inclusion and tolerance!!! This administration is off to a great start, IMO.

[sums]

i thought about my dad (the militant atheist) and smiled :)

[PennsylvaniaPete]

WHY IS THIS THREAD ALLOWED IN THE "FAMILY" FORUM?

So it gets ten replies in short order, rather then one reply ten days later.

[Kuzsin]

WHY IS THIS THREAD ALLOWED IN THE "FAMILY" FORUM?

...............are u in non belief?.......

[Prometheus]

Christian - Muslim - Jew - Hindu - Nonbeliever in that order.

i thought that included everyone, myself.



Not entirely, just the big tents.


Cthulhu is cool, But Eris is fairest.

[Feesh]

"How can you live in the Northeast? How can you live in the South?
How can you build on the banks of a river when the flood water pours from the mouth?
How can you be a Christian? How can you be a Jew? How can you be a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu?
How can you?"
~P.S.

[spacewoman]

he should have included "those with different beliefs" as well imo.

That makes sense. That's probably a better "catch all" than non-believers, but I still think the inclusion of non-believers is huge. All prior references to religion seem to think that those who aren't Christian, Muslim or Jewish don't exist at all.

[little frog]

i think it would be very difficult with limited time to include and name every religion or faith system americans might be involved with. just mentioning a few and including non-believers (not exactly a polite term to atheists imho) i think got the point across .. this will not be a government solely for christian believers as governments past have been.

[B. Diddy]

Muzz, Amil. Amil Muzz!

[staggerlee024]

I should assume that the no "religion or politics" guideline is not definite or defined. Rather, it is based on the personal opinions of the particular vibe guide on duty that day?

If your thread gets moved just wait until a new vibe guide is working?

[DifferentDrummer]

I should assume that the no "religion or politics" guideline is not definite or defined. Rather, it is based on the personal opinions of the particular vibe guide on duty that day?

If your thread gets moved just wait until a new vibe guide is working?

when threads are made that show israel in a negative light, certain people of the jewish persuasion call the gotv offices & complain, and thus the threads get (re)moved.

this thread is unlikely to result in said phone calls.

[Shake Yer Bones]

I should assume that the no "religion or politics" guideline is not definite or defined. Rather, it is based on the personal opinions of the particular vibe guide on duty that day?

If your thread gets moved just wait until a new vibe guide is working?

Ya know, I used to not care about this whole thread-moving stuff. But I can defintely see your point. Why this thread and a few others are in the family forum, after seeing some threads of a political nature moved, is beyond confusing. We're very much lacking consistency on this board as to which thread is moved and which isn't.

[Prometheus]

I personally don't interpret the term Non Believers to have been intended to cover the less popular religions. So in that respect, it was NOT universally inclusive of all beliefs. There are also those who umbrage at the use of the term in place of Atheist or Agnostic, as it could imply a passive, dysfunctional, not belonging to the norm, as opposed to an active, assertive position statement in it's own right. I think that sort of differentiation to be unnecessarily confusing and nitpicky in a context of this sort.

Sorry Stagger and DD. Thanks for contributing. In another forum, this thread would be empty...

[B. Diddy]

The VGs have already stated, and you didn't care to accept (perhaps because you couldn't get all up in arms about it and start beating the dead horse again), that they move threads when people complain about them.

If you want the thread moved, go complain to a Vibeguide.

The bottom line is Joker's political threads criticizing Israel get moved because he made it his business to post them several times each day and people got fed up. When he does it now, the fed-up people complain to the VG's, and they then move the thread.

So if people go complain about this thread being on the family board, they will move it.

[Feesh]

Does anyone think the Dragnet quotes are now inappropriate for the Politics & Religion forum? ;)

[Joker]

The VGs have already stated, and you didn't care to accept (perhaps because you couldn't get all up in arms about it and start beating the dead horse again), that they move threads when people complain about them.

If you want the thread moved, go complain to a Vibeguide.

The bottom line is Joker's political threads criticizing Israel get moved because he made it his business to post them several times each day and people got fed up. When he does it now, the fed-up people complain to the VG's, and they then move the thread.

So if people go complain about this thread being on the family board, they will move it.The VGs have stated several different reasons threads are moved. People complain about sports threads too but those remain, I've complained about other political threads yet those aren't moved. There are far, far more threads critical of OUR government and OUR leaders that are allowed to remain despite complaints, hell VGs have even been known to participate in them.

It's sad that it's come to the point where threads are now being moved simply because others don't like the topic discussed.

I wonder if threads about phish will be moved if people complain :lol:

[Jersey Thug]

I would like to acknowledge the rare and unusual public acknowledgment yesterday by an American politician that our Nation includes, and values enough to finally mention the existence of "non believers" in the Inaugural Address yesterday. It may be a small and token first step for a US President to specifically include a mention of this traditionally, politically ignored segment of our Nation, but it is nonetheless an important and significant one.

It wasn't all that long ago that George H.W. Bush stated while campaigning at a news conference in Chicago, "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Thank You President Obama for your gesture of inclusiveness, and for leading by example, taking a small step toward the "putting away of childish things" that you mentioned as well.

:V: :jump:


agreed 100%. the verbiage chosen may not have been 'perfect', but i appreciated the spirit of inclusion with which the statement was made.