Etiquitte on asking for a ring/rock back?

[Don Nucka]

Things did not end well with my ex-fiance. She was cheating, i was strung out and general bad craziness. However now we are friends. Is it acceptable to ask for my engagement and promise rings back? Nothing fancy, but one is an emerald in gold and the other a topaz surrounded by diamonds set in white gold. Could be pawned for gas/bill money.
Advise please.

[jagermonster]

how long ago did you give them? she may want to keep them for sentimental reaasons. maybe even sold them herself already..
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[irie]

i would ask for them back.

you gave them to her as a promise to get married. if you didn't get married and want them back, you should get them back.

ask her if she still has them. that's a good ice breaker ;)

[JamOnIt247]

I would!! Especially if you two are friends now.

Whats the worst that can happen??? She'll say no?? :lol:

Doooooooo it! :thumbup:

[mario]

Law is on your side. If you're friends now, ask nice. If she says no, say "Bitch give me the ring back, or I'm suing your ass!" That's the engagement ring. The "promise ring" is probably not looked upon in the same legal light, and if she doesn't want to give it back, you may be boned.

An engagement ring though is a contractual item. Get it back! (Or at least what you paid for it)

[Drop_o_Rain]

Did you give them to her on her birthday, Christmas, valentine's day or any other holiday or anniversary?

If yes, then the rings can be construed as gifts..... and you are SOL...
if no, then just ask her... the intended promise did not take place and so that jewelry is yours.

[Wende]

Is it really that worth it?? I mean, she obviously meant a lot to you and you, her...why ask for things like that *back*

Money? I personally think thats pretty low. It's not worth it.

[KARSEN]

These were a gift of a promise YOU were making? Non refundable imo. If you need the money asking her to borrow some bucks would look better on you than asking for this back imo. I personally would not care and give them back no prob..but I know MANY people that would balk at this idea.

[kate11]

...or i'll pop a cap in yur ass :joker:

Law is on your side. If you're friends now, ask nice. If she says no, say "Bitch give me the ring back, or I'm suing your ass!" That's the engagement ring. The "promise ring" is probably not looked upon in the same legal light, and if she doesn't want to give it back, you may be boned.

An engagement ring though is a contractual item. Get it back! (Or at least what you paid for it)

[Mr_Pat]

These were a gift of a promise YOU were making? Non refundable imo. If you need the money asking her to borrow some bucks would look better on you than asking for this back imo. I personally would not care and give them back no prob..but I know MANY people that would balk at this idea.


Actually its been held up in court that its a two way promise. By her excepting the ring she is promising to marry you. Now that thats out the window, go get your ring back and if she wont give it to you, drag her ass to court.

[teabag]

rule of thumb never get married

[mario]

Is it really that worth it?? I mean, she obviously meant a lot to you and you, her...why ask for things like that *back*

Money? I personally think thats pretty low. It's not worth it.


Alright ladies, put the ball clippers away. This kind of response is the same kind of BS women always try to pull when this topic comes up.

"Oh you should feel bad for even considering demanding back something worth one month of your salary that was given on the condition of a marriage that never happened"

or

"What of the sentimental value of her stomping your heart with her high heel? How else will she be able to remember it without that lovely ring you gave her?"

As far as the XMAS, NYE, VALENTINES thing, also bunk. Not true. It's been upheld in court. An engagement ring is just that. An engagement ring. It is not a "gift" in the eyes of the court. It is part of a contractual arrangement. If for ANY reason that contract is not exercised, you are due back your asset. (The ring)

Don't let the women guilt you. Don't listen to bad legal advice. Get the ring back.

[JamOnIt247]

Nice Mario... very well put. :thumbup:

[Jesse D]

Hmmmmmm........

[KARSEN]

Who's ball busting? My opinion goes for either sex. I just think its in very bad taste to ask for things like this back. It makes the whole idea of love and promises look like a marketing tool of bullshit that is easily retracted. The moment meant something ONLY as long as it works out. Bullshit. A moment like the time when you exchange something with love in your heart should be left at that and intact wether it worked out or not imo. It can be taken back so easily? No wonder so many people break up or things dont work out..their whole approach is twisted. Taking someone to court over a ring that was given in a moment of love and friendship? I guess I am just a little shocked this is a cool and accepted practice. Wether it is a make or female who gave it...


It is really a personal situation that is hard to give advice on without knowing the person invlolved..go with your gut feeling on how she may react and how you might feel about it..

[irie]

i don't think it's bad to ask for it back at all. you spent good money on that ring because you wanted to marry her. shit didn't work out, so you should get it back (if you want it)

i gave my engagement ring back. granted i threw it at his face, but i did give it back!

[JamOnIt247]

I see both sides really. If you GAVE a gift to someone, then you shouldnt really ask for it back! Agreed!

Mr. Nucka and his Ex are now friends, and he is in need of some extra cash, I see no harm in him asking. What, is she going to think any less of him? Perhaps. but It's not like they're getting married anymore!

I guess, If it were me and I gave such a thing to someone, I prolly wouldnt ask for it back. For example.. I gave a ring to an ex of mine, it was pretty expensive. The break up was pretty nasty and I never thought once to ask for this ring back! Expensive or not, whether he deserved it or not, its a small price to pay to keep someone out of your life that doesnt deserve to be.

I guess It just depends on the situation is all.

[Jersey Thug]

Alright ladies, put the ball clippers away. This kind of response is the same kind of BS women always try to pull when this topic comes up.



sheesh! that's a lot of anger directed toward women in general, Mario. i don't see anyone "pulling" anything here, just giving honest opinions. "always" or just this once ;)

anyway, i agree with Jammy. while i wouldn't do it myself, i don't really see a problem with it either and wouldn't be offended if i was asked to return an engagement ring after a breakup. but personally i see it as a gift more than a contract. regardless of how the courts see it.

mostly it depends on the circumstances, i guess. there is no one size fits all answer to questions like this, you just have to do what's best for you.

[cybertentbob]

I just found this on google:
The orgin of engagement rings is somewhat unclear so I'll share a few of the most common stories with you

Ancient Egyptians loved their jewelry. They believed that a special love vein ran from the fourth finger of the left hand to the heart....where the engagement ring continues to be placed today. Another reason for the significance of the 4th finger is that in midevil times, the presiding ceremonial priest or groom would place the engagement ring on the first three fingers when saying "the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost", finishing on the fourth finger where it would then stay.

The Romans wore "betrothal" rings made of iron. Over time, these rings started to be made of gold and embellished. Some early rings also had a carved key to symbolize how a woman could unlock her lover's heart. Another theory suggests that the engagement ring served as a "slave band" in the Roman Republic to indicate that the woman was the man's chattel and belonged exclusively to him.

If you're looking for some specific dudes to single out, look no further. In 860 Pope Nicolas I announced that a ring was a requirement to signify engagement and it was also stipulated that it should be a gold ring - this indicated the financial commitment being made by the groom. Some sources say the origin of engagement rings dates back to 1477 when the Archduke Maximillian of Austria bought his beloved Mary of Burgundy some serious bling.

Consider yourself lucky (or unlucky) depending on your perspective. In Brazil, Sweden, and Germany, both the man and the woman wear engagement rings.

And some men wish they could go back in time to the days of cavemen. The cavemen tied strands of grass around the ankle of their cavechick to claim their respective piece of meat. This was uncomfortable for the cavechick and was ultimately adjusted so that the grass strands were tied around her finger versus her ankle.

[Jojo]

If the engagement is broken off the woman should defintately give the ring back, and without having to be asked for it, IMO.

[Jojo]

i gave my engagement ring back. granted i threw it at his face, but i did give it back!

:lol:

I'm sure it wasn't funny at the time, but that just made me laugh.

[Wende]

If the engagement is broken off the woman should defintately give the ring back, and without having to be asked for it, IMO.


Exactly... that is the classy thing to do on her side. BUT, if she does not. Just let the bitch have it...:lol:

it's not worth it.

[mario]

Who's ball busting? My opinion goes for either sex. I just think its in very bad taste to ask for things like this back. It makes the whole idea of love and promises look like a marketing tool of bullshit that is easily retracted. The moment meant something ONLY as long as it works out. Bullshit. A moment like the time when you exchange something with love in your heart should be left at that and intact wether it worked out or not imo. It can be taken back so easily? No wonder so many people break up or things dont work out..their whole approach is twisted. Taking someone to court over a ring that was given in a moment of love and friendship? I guess I am just a little shocked this is a cool and accepted practice. Wether it is a make or female who gave it...


It is really a personal situation that is hard to give advice on without knowing the person invlolved..go with your gut feeling on how she may react and how you might feel about it..

First off, EITHER SEX? How many women are handing out engagement rings to men? Sorry, that just don't fly here.

What I'm a little shocked at, (not really) is that women think they are entitled to keep something that is not rightfully theirs anymore, and are playing the guilt trip about "a moment of love" to try to cheat a guy out of a months salary.

Poor taste? What kind of poor taste is it for a woman to accept a ring then go boink the milkman? Or any other reason she backs out of the engagement after accepting the ring, then NOT returning it.

It's not "a personal situation that depends on the persons involved" It's a black and white legal matter. She broke a contract, (And yes, that is what this is, a CONTRACT, like marriage itself. A CONTRACT.) and he deserves his ring back.

Funny how on the other side of this coin, when a marriage ends, and women come on with the full court legal press to dig in for the dough, women all over applaud and root them on, but when some poor guy is trying to get an engagement ring back it's all "how heartless" BS, and "How can you bring the law into something like a relationship matter" horseplop.

All this is is more anti male propaganda bs.

Nucka, if you don't get that ring back, you're a PUSSY. Plain and simple. Don't let these women push you around. Get what you are legally entitled to.

[mario]

BTW, I love the tactic of trying to pull the "misogyny" card when a man is defending his rights, or speaking up for a fellow man in an issue where a woman is involved.

All of a sudden because you are taking the guys side you have "anger twards women issues" or here's a classic "What, are you gay or something?" or "why do you hate women?"

None of these are true. I am not angry towards women, I love women, I'm attracted to them, I count many of them as close friends, and I sure as heck don't hate an entire gender.

Making claims like that is at best foolish, at worst a devious tactic to try to pull credibility away from the person defending a man. Bad form indeed.

[unbroken_chain]

just a side note here, I don't know what you paid for this ring... but I paid a LOT once for a real nice ring, and after things did not pan out (thank you lord) when i went to sell it, got less than 10%
of what I paid.

granted, it was thrown back in my face.:lol:

[mario]

just a side note here, I don't know what you paid for this ring... but I paid a LOT once for a real nice ring, and after things did not pan out (thank you lord) when i went to sell it, got less than 10% of what I paid.


That can happen. So if she wants to keep the ring, tell her you want what you paid for it. This has also been done before and upheld in court. If she refuses to give up the ring, she gives up the $$$. Win/Win.

[little frog]

If the engagement is broken off the woman should defintately give the ring back, and without having to be asked for it, IMO.


totally!! since she has such bad manners as to keep an engagement ring for a marriage that never happened you do need to ask for it back.

[mario]

Thank you ladies. I'm glad (and not at all surprised) that there are those of you that see the simple black and white issue going on here.

[Jersey Thug]

Mario, you aren't seeing all the possibilities here in your efforts to typecast all/most women as money-grubbing bitches. you have no idea what Nucka's or anyone else's financial situation is, and assuming that all women "dig for the dough" is not only inaccurate, it's fucking insulting.

for instance when i got engaged, my ex and i had already been living together for several years. i worked to put him through school and made more money than he did then, as i got an early start on my career. we paid for my engagement ring and all other things we bought *jointly*, as often happens when you merge your incomes...no matter who makes marginally more. YES that money came from his account...but i paid more of our other bills to make up the difference.

and i think that's true of a LOT of two-income households where the couple isn't rolling in expendable cash. your opinion may have flown 40 years ago but that just isn't how it works these days...at least not for everyone.

so you see, there IS room for some gray between all that black and white you see.

[little frog]

Dear Yahoo!: When a man gives an engagement ring to a lady and the engagement is called off later, is the ring to be returned to the man or is the lady to keep it?
Dennis Lawrence, Kansas

Dear Dennis: We searched for engagement ring etiquette (http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=fp-pull-web-t&p=engagement+ring+etiquette) and related terms and found that many authorities say the ring should be returned. But opinions (http://www.usabride.com/wedplan/a_break_engagement.html) vary according to who breaks off the engagement and whether you follow the rules of etiquette or the law. Most traditional (http://www.eng.umu.se/vw/Etiquette/ettiquette.htm) and even modern (http://www.etiquettegrrlstyle.com/archive_08-06-01.html) etiquette resources say that the woman must at least offer to return the ring. This is widely regarded as the honorable thing to do, especially if the woman breaks the engagement. If the man calls off the wedding, some suggest that the woman may keep (http://www.supanet.com/ladiesroom/weddings/etiquette/need_rings.html) the ring (or hope he's such a gentleman that he wants (http://www.ivillage.com/relationships/experts/msdemeanor/qas/0%2C4144%2C189232_5290%2C00.html?arrivalSA=1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=2) her to keep it). In any case, if the engagement ring would only be a reminder of painful circumstances, the lady may want to return (http://www.georgiabride.com/engaged.html) it.

The legal point of view seems to follow etiquette. In 1999, Pennsylvania's Supreme Court (http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/19991127roddy.asp) ruled that the woman must give the engagement ring back. The reasoning was that "the ring was a gift predicated on getting married." So, if the wedding is off, the ring should come off -- and should be returned.

[mario]

No, there simply isn't. He paid for it, he is entitled to the ring or what he paid.

Oh and here we go again with the accusations who said I think "All/most" women are "money grubbing bitches"???

We want to speculate here? I think if anything, you're taking this PERSONALLY. You're thinking, "Hey, if I got a ring, I would want to keep it regardless! Heck why don't I go and get engaged to 200 guys and get 200 rings and keep them! Why shouldn't I be able to do that?"

But of course that's pure speculation.

We could do this all day. The truth of the matter is I don't think all women are money grubbers, and you're not starting an engagement ring ponzi scheme.

Doesn't matter who is paying the electric bill, who is paying the gas bill, all that matters is who paid for the ring. If he paid for it, done deal. If she bought herself a ring, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

Take your personal emotion out of the picture and look at it from a purely logical standpoint. The man is entitled to the ring or the money back.

[Jersey Thug]

i just remembered why i mostly stick to talking about sex and books and shows and, well, sex around here anymore. :lol:

the truth is, i could reply with more arguments to support my point, and your opinion wouldn't change in the slightest, nor would my mind be changed by anything you have to say on the matter in response. all i'd do is waste time talking about something that doesn't really matter to me anyway.

i do find it amusing that you of all people accused me of reacting emotionally, though. over the years i've never seen anyone get more emotional than you do when you really sink your teeth into a thread, Mario, and that's the truth.

for the record, my argument isn't an emotional one, it's a realistic one based on financial realities in some relationships. i actually WAS married, and offered my ex the ring back anyway, 10 years after it was given. so honestly, i don't care what you think of other women who would do it differently, even if i can see situations where asking for the ring back (or taking it, once offered) would be downright ludicrous.

[mario]

The *ONLY* situation where asking for the ring back being "ludicruous" would be if he didn't pay for it. Plain and simple.

As far as emotion, no. Strength of logic, absolutely. My whole argument here has been that this is a black and white legal issue, and people trying to inject "emotion" into the situation "Think of the sentimental value" "Have a heart" etc, bs, ad infinum are the ones taking this issue from an EMOTIONAL perspective.

[vinandtonic]

If the engagement is broken off the woman should defintately give the ring back, and without having to be asked for it, IMO.

I agree. I gave my first husband both of my rings back. The diamond was his great-grandmother's, so I didn't feel right keeping it anyway.

[KindGeeGirl]

I think if a man gives a gift, even if it is an unspoken contract under the law, he should expect never to see it again.

I think if a woman is given a ring and doesn't get married then she should give it back.

Yes they are conflicting opinions but really it's a gamble either way. The stories I've heard and really what are we fighting over. A rock that isn't even rare. Stupid tradition IMHO :joker:

[mario]

An engagement ring is not a gift.

[shelby]

I think she should've offered to return it, once the wedding was called off!
It's perfectly acceptable to ASK for the rings back...not quite sure why someone would want to keep such a 'momento' anyways.

[Wende]

Thank you ladies. I'm glad (and not at all surprised) that there are those of you that see the simple black and white issue going on here.


You obviously have no clue what some of us were trying to say. :lol::clapping:

[KindGeeGirl]

An engagement ring is not a gift.

Legally it's a contract and in a girl's eyes it's a gift. I don't think couples think too much about it when they are doing the giving and taking. Either way if it's given you should expect to never to see it again. However I do believe it is black and white and should be given back.

I think I saw a Judge Judy a while back that allowed the girl to keep the ring since it was given on Valentines Day and she never really said yes or something. It's all a bunch of bullshit.

My best advice is to ask for it back on a day you are speaking on good terms and she knows how hard things are for you to move on with all that you lost. Knowing that a ring is out there with your heart on it makes it all much worse for you. Ya know play it up a little :wink: Give me the ring back bitch or I will take you court because legally it's mine will probably not work.

[mario]

If it comes down to "Give it back or I'll take you to court" it will work. He will win.

Oh and Wende, I knew exactly what you were trying to say.

"Money? I personally think thats pretty low."

I don't see how it's "pretty low". If anything it's quite the opposite. It's pretty low for a woman to think she's entitled to keep an engagement ring if she doesn't plan on marrying the guy.

[KARSEN]

So even if the guy did not follow through and marry her she has to give it back? IF HE backs out? Why cant she keep it an pawn it for money? He did in fact break this "contract" yes? Because he bought it he gets it back even if he backed out for some reason? Hmmm..this whole subject sits poorly with me.

I would personally offer it back..but by no means do I see why that is expected when he is likely as responsible as she is for the failure of the marriage to happen. He BROKE this contract" just as she did. Generally there is penalty for breaking "contracts" if that is what we are reffering as relationships these days.. Maybe she needs the money too and he let her down..she shouldn't be able to keep it for time wasted and lost?? hmmm...this whole thing again...sits poorly with me.

[Phishfolk]

Nucka didn't I see you post that she and your friend who she cheated on you with stole money and stuff from you and that's why you had to move back in with your parents?

If that is the case you should demand both rings back.

[Wende]

I never said she was entitled, I simply said "IS it fucking worth it?" Let HER be the dirtbag.

If you really need 40 bucks I can send it via paypal immediately for you. :)

[sarah b.]

This thread makes me glad that I didn't wan/have a ring, back when I was engaged (almost 7 years ago, now). :lol:

[Quinn The Eskimo]

i could be totally off here
i am no lawyer
but i believe it is considered a gift legally

i know a few years ago i read all about a case in nj where a guy gave his gf a very expensive ring when he proposed (worth something like $100,000 though it's been awhile so i forget exactly)
she ended up cheating on him
they broke up
he asked for the ring back
she refused
he sued
he lost
the court said it was a gift and she got to keep it

that being said, i agree with mario
if she had said no, would you have given her the ring to wear anyways?
of course not
she said yes
the ring was part of a verbal contract to be wed
she broke the contract
now i also feel like if he had been the one doing the cheating or broke it off for whatever reason then yeah she should get to do whatever she wants with the ring

[lil pixi]

If the engagement is broken off the woman should defintately give the ring back, and without having to be asked for it, IMO.

Plain & simple.

What mario said about the ring being part of a contractual agreement. You break it, you give the ring back.

You'd have to be a total unreasonable fn brat otherwise. :lol: :rolleyes:

[KARSEN]

"go boink the milkman"?????? This conversation is getting better every minute. Who says SHE is the one who backed out? He stated he was wasted all the time and she cheated. Sounds like they both fucked up here. Your black and white just doesn't fly with me sir. Sorry. These situations are UNIQUE to EACH relationship and people invloved. There is NO black and white. You have NO idea what went on in these peoples lives. And excuse me...but MANY women give rings and pay for the weddings these days.. Get out of the fucking dark ages. You have your opinion and are entitled to it. Why you started throwing around "dont let these chics guilt you bro" bullshit I dont know..Am I missing something??? Doesn't this thread ask the question of OUR THOUGHTS on the matter? Which will differ of course amongst us..I LOVE being attacked for posting an OPINION. So lovely, so nice. The thread asked if it was considered appropriate by us. I stated my opinion. Which is by no means the law. You dont have to like it or agree. But you can take a hike for acting like I am not entitled to it or that my own opinion is preposterous when it is only my own and makes sense in my life. Peace and Have a nice day:) Don't fall of that high horse..you might break your neck.

[KARSEN]

Oh and yes Thug..I agree...this is why I NEVER get involved in threads of any OPINION based nature around here. Because we can't state it and have it be left at that OUR OPINION. Immaturity abounds. Adult conversation is impossible almost always. Attacks and fucked up PM's and the standard board bullshit always take control :eyeroll: Sucks..but now I remember why I stay ambivilant and passive.

And Nucka..good luck on your choice here. This thread has gone away from the help you asked for..I apologize for being part of that. If you are friends and you know this girl well as I am sure you do then only you can make the choice based on your knowledge of her and her reactions. I hope all goes well for you.

[JamOnIt247]

Wow this thread got totally crazy huh?

I just wanna say.. Sounds like some need a hug!
And I wanna say..I love you guys!! :lol:
And thank you for the reminder as to why I never got married in the first place.. dramaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

[JamOnIt247]

Oh and yes Thug..I agree...this is why I NEVER get involved in threads of any OPINION based nature around here. Because we can't state it and have it be left at that OUR OPINION. Immaturity abounds. Adult conversation is impossible almost always. Attacks and fucked up PM's and the standard board bullshit always take control :eyeroll: Sucks..but now I remember why I stay ambivilant and passive.

well Karsen i dont know ya all that well but I think its pretty damn hot when you voice your opinion in such ways! ;) Buck up little camper :heart:

[KARSEN]

well Karsen i dont know ya all that well but I think its pretty damn hot when you voice your opinion in such ways! ;) Buck up little camper :heart:


haha. Thanks. I am bucked up. I just prefer conversation that GOES SOMEWHERE ya know? :lol:

And this has nothing to do with marriage love:) Marriage in the right form is awesome and amazing..take it from me:) You are married in your heart. Not because a metal ring or piece of paper says so.

[JamOnIt247]

haha. Thanks. I am bucked up. I just prefer conversation that GOES SOMEWHERE ya know? :lol:

And this has nothing to do with marriage love:) Marriage in the right form is awesome and amazing..take it from me:) You are married in your heart. Not because a metal ring or piece of paper says so.

YES!! I do know actually, Im just ball busting love ;)

But I completely agree with you. I know it can be very beautiful in the right form. I've always believed that you dont have to be legally married in order to go thru "for better / for worse" with someone!

[little frog]

it seems odd that he would be thinking about asking for a ring back if she paid for it, no.

my thoughts are, he probably paid for it or else he wouldn't want it back. engagement rings are a very clear contractual agreement. in the case mentioned earlier, it seems there was no clear evidence that the ring given on valentines day was in fact an engagement ring. hence, it's a gift.

engagement rings are not a gift in the sense of, i'm giving you this cause you're cute .. more like a promise note. promise is broken or not fulfilled then the contract is off.

you wouldn't let a homeowner keep your deposit on a house if they decided not to sell, would you?

In court, and according to proper etiquette, if the ring was bought by the man, she should have offered it back.

not sure why this turned into a fight but as far as this case is concerned, it seems pretty cut and dry. the courts don't seem to care if you were living together or who was paying the bills.

an engagement ring is generally a very expensive purchase for the sole purpose of entering into a contract for marriage. i think it would be worth it to get it back.

[KARSEN]

Well if you consider a Ring is like a Deposit on the contract. If he breaks the contract he loses the deposit no? That's why I am saying this is not black and white. If you break a lease you lose the deposit..if we are approaching relationships as perfunctory business agreements here then this applies no? But all that matters here is who paid for it?? I would be curious to see how the court would sway if it was the male who in fact broke the deal and backed out or fucked up somehow..would he STILL be entitled to it even though he is the one who broke the deal? MAybe she had paid for the wedding planning and then he backed out etc etc..then possibly the court would give her the ring to compensate?...again TO MANY variables to know for sure...can't possibly be black and white across the board as is being stated. I am going to look this up...

AGAIN..i never said he isn't allowed to get it back. I stated my opinion of uncomortableness with it. Which again..is just MY opinion. And I also think it is NOT cut and dry..i am gonna look into the angles cause I KNOW there are many here...


AGAIN..this is way from the subject asked in the thread..I dont really care to carry this on anymore. I hope Nucka has things work out for him and he and this girl can come to an easy agreement if that is what he chooses to do:)

[Phishfolk]

Here are a few of my thoughts on this thread.

I never would have thought of it as a contract when I gave Jenny her ring. Calling it a contract seems completely foriegn to me. The contractual part comes once we are married. Then I own her. :clapping:

If I waited until I saved up a months salary....I couldn't imagine being able to even save that much...we would never get married. The ring I bought wasn't "cheap" but damn we wanna get married not put a downpayment on a house.

KARSEN is right. No 2 relationships are anywhere near the same.

[little frog]

Dear Yahoo!: When a man gives an engagement ring to a lady and the engagement is called off later, is the ring to be returned to the man or is the lady to keep it?
Dennis Lawrence, Kansas

Dear Dennis: We searched for engagement ring etiquette (http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=fp-pull-web-t&p=engagement+ring+etiquette) and related terms and found that many authorities say the ring should be returned. But opinions (http://www.usabride.com/wedplan/a_break_engagement.html) vary according to who breaks off the engagement and whether you follow the rules of etiquette or the law. Most traditional (http://www.eng.umu.se/vw/Etiquette/ettiquette.htm) and even modern (http://www.etiquettegrrlstyle.com/archive_08-06-01.html) etiquette resources say that the woman must at least offer to return the ring. This is widely regarded as the honorable thing to do, especially if the woman breaks the engagement. If the man calls off the wedding, some suggest that the woman may keep (http://www.supanet.com/ladiesroom/weddings/etiquette/need_rings.html) the ring (or hope he's such a gentleman that he wants (http://www.ivillage.com/relationships/experts/msdemeanor/qas/0%2C4144%2C189232_5290%2C00.html?arrivalSA=1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=2) her to keep it). In any case, if the engagement ring would only be a reminder of painful circumstances, the lady may want to return (http://www.georgiabride.com/engaged.html) it.

The legal point of view seems to follow etiquette. In 1999, Pennsylvania's Supreme Court (http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/19991127roddy.asp) ruled that the woman must give the engagement ring back. The reasoning was that "the ring was a gift predicated on getting married." So, if the wedding is off, the ring should come off -- and should be returned.


i did do some research ..

[KARSEN]

yes you did. Thankyou for confirming my statements of varying opinion.

"But opinions vary according to who breaks off the engagement and whether you follow the rules of etiquette or the law. Most traditional and even modern etiquette resources say that the woman must at least offer to return the ring. This is widely regarded as the honorable thing to do, especially if the woman breaks the engagement. If the man calls off the wedding, some suggest that the woman may keep the ring (or hope he's such a gentleman that he wants her to keep it)"

good grief. Why do I keep responding to run on chatter. I have said my piece. That's all folks....

[HoopsTer]

you wouldn't let a homeowner keep your deposit on a house if they decided not to sell, would you?

No. But if you decide not to buy then you do in fact forfeit your deposit. ;)


I believe case law varies from state to state and it's a facts and circumstances determination.

[mario]

Craziness.

I'm done with this. The law is clear. The person who started this thread has not responded once since this whole thing snowballed. He's heard plenty from folks like Little Frog and myself on what he should do.

Any further discussion here will just be battling with folks who have an emotional stake in the discussion and will not be swayed. No offense Karsen and others, and of course as most of you know I do come on with the full court press in debates, but it doesn't mean I bare anyone any malice. The ability to differ on opinion and freely discuss those differences are a valuable part of any friendship and any great society.

Cheers!

[Jesse D]

Here are a few of my thoughts on this thread.

I never would have thought of it as a contract when I gave Jenny her ring. Calling it a contract seems completely foriegn to me. The contractual part comes once we are married. Then I own her. :clapping:

If I waited until I saved up a months salary....I couldn't imagine being able to even save that much...we would never get married. The ring I bought wasn't "cheap" but damn we wanna get married not put a downpayment on a house.

KARSEN is right. No 2 relationships are anywhere near the same.

:eek:
:lmao: Jay, she is so gonna whoop your ass!!

[HoopsTer]

FWIW. I have no emotional stake in this discussion.
Case law isnt clear. It's a facts and circumstances determination and varies from state to state.

[Drop_o_Rain]

It depends on the state. period.

[Phishfolk]

:eek:
:lmao: Jay, she is so gonna whoop your ass!!

I know :funny1:

[Wende]

i did do some research ..


Why? :lol:

[Wende]

I mean, who really cares?


WeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEE


I'm goin to the castle and i'm, going to get marrrrrrrriiiiieeeeddd.....

[Jersey Thug]

http://photos.commongate.com/11/38441_7dtr2scy8f_l.jpg

ps - Jay, i think you have that backwards. seems to me Jenny's gonna rule your face.

remember election time? :funny1:

[Jersey Thug]

ooh...i didn't see the "shut the fuck up" part of that image on Google before posting. that was unintentional. carry on :lol:

[Phishfolk]

ooh...i didn't see the "shut the fuck up" part of that image on Google before posting. that was unintentional. carry on :lol:

Thanks for clearing that up because that made the picture offensive to me :funny1:

[Jersey Thug]

Thanks for clearing that up because that made the picture offensive to me :funny1:

:lol:

i have some bad influences in my life right now, what can i say? :Phishfolk:

[mario]

http://208.116.9.205/10/content/15368/1.jpg

[Creekie]

I don't see why anyone would want to keep one, really,it's a reminder of what didn't happen. Would make me sad when I looked at it.
Unless it's a family thing, like my ring came from my family, and I kept it...ya know?(well, that was a marriage,so it's different I guess)
anyway.
I think you should ask about it, and if she still has it, ask for it back. The engagement ring. The promise rings,I'm not sure.

Nothing wrong with it, although I do see everyone's points, you didn't get married. That ring is a symbol of something that didn't happen. No reason not to get it back and pawn it if you need to.

[jemita]

I don't see why anyone would want to keep one, really,it's a reminder of what didn't happen. Would make me sad when I looked at it.


thats all i kept thinking when i was reading the whole thread :)

i dont want a reminder of what didnt work out, sitting in some jewelry box, unless of course it was white gold emerald cut tiffany ring... then sorry dude, its mine.... i would take it and make it a pretty necklace... take the old, make into new.... :wink:

[drvic]

get a good lawyer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3f/Lionel_Hutz.jpg/250px-Lionel_Hutz.jpg

[robberry]

"Give me my money back
Give me my money back you bitch
I want my money back
And don't forget to give me back my black T-Shirt"

[Spiffy]

Law is on your side. If you're friends now, ask nice. If she says no, say "Bitch give me the ring back, or I'm suing your ass!" That's the engagement ring. The "promise ring" is probably not looked upon in the same legal light, and if she doesn't want to give it back, you may be boned.

An engagement ring though is a contractual item. Get it back! (Or at least what you paid for it)

for once, I agree w/ Mario :lol:
a promise ring is a contract, and she broke it by cheating.

[bast]

)))contractual jewelery(((

[Jersey Thug]

i was just thinking about this thread yesterday. i was at a party and talking to a couple Jason is marrying in May. he bought her an engagement ring and she (wanting to give him something meaningful in return) bought him a very VERY nice camera. :lol:

[safireblues]

I asked my husband to marry me, then we picked out the ring together and split it. How's that for fairness?

[Don Nucka]

i don't think it's bad to ask for it back at all. you spent good money on that ring because you wanted to marry her. shit didn't work out, so you should get it back (if you want it)

i gave my engagement ring back. granted i threw it at his face, but i did give it back!

:lmao::lmao:

I got no more to say on this

[Don Nucka]

So even if the guy did not follow through and marry her she has to give it back? IF HE backs out? Why cant she keep it an pawn it for money? He did in fact break this "contract" yes? Because he bought it he gets it back even if he backed out for some reason? Hmmm..this whole subject sits poorly with me.

I would personally offer it back..but by no means do I see why that is expected when he is likely as responsible as she is for the failure of the marriage to happen. He BROKE this contract" just as she did. Generally there is penalty for breaking "contracts" if that is what we are reffering as relationships these days.. Maybe she needs the money too and he let her down..she shouldn't be able to keep it for time wasted and lost?? hmmm...this whole thing again...sits poorly with me.


OK, i'm not done. When the fuck did I back out? Oh,and if anyone REALLY needs to know my financial situation, I'm on the come up but need every little bit i can get. She's doig fine with her new dumb as a box of rocks and crazier than 14 headless chickens boyfriend. Damn i though i was an alcoholic till i met him.

[Don Nucka]

Nucka didn't I see you post that she and your friend who she cheated on you with stole money and stuff from you and that's why you had to move back in with your parents?

If that is the case you should demand both rings back.



Q4FnT

[Don Nucka]

I never said she was entitled, I simply said "IS it fucking worth it?" Let HER be the dirtbag.

If you really need 40 bucks I can send it via paypal immediately for you. :)

what the fuck is this 40 bucks shit?


Damn im on a roll. I'll shut up soon.

[Don Nucka]

Plain & simple.

What mario said about the ring being part of a contractual agreement. You break it, you give the ring back.

You'd have to be a total unreasonable fn brat otherwise. :lol: :rolleyes:

And this from someone who actually quasi-knows the situation. I rest my case, your honor.

[safireblues]

My thing here was that I'm not sure of the cost of those rings, but I don't get the sense they are worth that much. Ergo, it kind of looks weird to ask for a gift back that's less than a few hundred bucks. Like if you spent 10G on a ring and it's sitting in a box, that's just silly. But if you're trying to get back little trinkets to scrape together dinner money, maybe you should look in the couch?